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 Post subject: Puzzling issue with Savage 775A (A-5 clone)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:43 am
Posts: 23
I shoot a Savage 775A at Sporting Clays as the drop in the stock is a natural fit and my scores are the best with it. I have 5. 3 identical working units & two that have been relegated to parts guns. I realize this is far from the first choice for a S.C. unit, however, it is difficult to argue with the success it brings. As I believe I have a pretty darn good idea of the cyclic operation of these A-5 clones, that brings me to my malfunction. It seems the unit will fire, eject & feed, fire again & leave the empty (cartridge case#2) in the chamber. Sometimes the bolt will be in the locked back position and sometimes the bolt will return to battery with the empty still in there. My last unit was retired as the barrel became so loose in the receiver (aluminum alloy) that the ejector tab on the barrel end battered against the bolt enough to come loose only to be replaced and begin missing the empty cartridge rim completely resulting in repeated type 3 stoppages (empty almost out with the live one trapped under by the elevator). I don't know why now on this current unit round #1 fires & ejects as usual, allowing round #2 to feed, chamber and fire, and yet not necessarily clear the empty round #2. I wonder if round #2 helps round #1 clear the bolt face during feeding and there is no round #3 to clear round #2? I wonder if switching from 1 1/8 oz loads to 1 oz loads (which I have a couple of hundred rounds ago) have created this problem? Since 1 oz round #1 works a expected, I kinda doubt it. I keep the friction ring & mag tube dry & set for light loads. Any thoughts? As Always Safe Shooting - overthehills




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 Post subject: Re: Puzzling issue with Savage 775A (A-5 clone)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 2644
Location: MO
I might load that 3rd round and stop wondering...

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzling issue with Savage 775A (A-5 clone)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:12 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 3378
Location: Newton Kansas
No, the next round does nothing to "help eject" the empty round.

Most autoloading handguns DO work this way (the top magazine round pushes upward), the Auto-5 does not.

I would suspect either a worn/damaged extractor, or extractor spring.

Also, when's the last time you replaced both the action and recoil springs? The recoil spring should be 9 1/4" long or longer when relaxed, off the gun, no shorter.

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I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


Last edited by OldStufferA5#1911 on Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzling issue with Savage 775A (A-5 clone)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:43 am
Posts: 23
Dear Mr OldStufferA5#1911- Thank you for your informative reply. To answer your questions, I am pretty obsessive about keeping these old units (vintage 1958) running well. I replace action & recoil springs as well as the friction piece & it's compression spring whenever I bring one of these into "the fold". I try to run the recoil system "close to the edge" for cycling in an attempt to minimize "battering". I have seen others squirt oil into the friction ring / magazine tube area in colder weather to get them cycling reliability, something that makes me cringe. I am hoping it might be an issue of the load being a little light cartridge to cartridge or the recoil system running a little too "well". It seems about halfway around the course the cycling settles in & behaves. BTW - I thoroughly clean & lube (dry ring & mag tube) the unit after every outing...yes every outing. The extractor hook & spring will not let go of the case head on bench test until the case mouth pivots out of the chamber mouth. I don't think it is a player here. I'm just trying to keep these running reliably as long as possible and know there are members out there who have experienced a lot more with this type of action than I have. I appreciate any thoughts members may have & as always - safe shooting - overthehills


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzling issue with Savage 775A (A-5 clone)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 2184
Location: Missouri
At minimum you have an extractor problem. It may need replacing, or possibly just to have its spring replaced. Evidently some Savages have 2 extractors like the Browning; on those the left one has a tendency to break.

As for oiling the magazine, John Browning HIMSELF advised a few drops of 30 weight. I save a dry tube for 1600fps slugs.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzling issue with Savage 775A (A-5 clone)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:43 am
Posts: 23
All this time I was of the understanding the friction piece and the mag tube were to be kept as oil free as possible...if the designer advises oiling it, it might explain my situation. My units all have the single RH extractors that sets up the left edge of the cartridge case against a groove in the barrel extension so the ejector at the end of the barrel extension can flick it off as it goes forward. The most puzzling part is that the first cartridge always clears the gun out in front where I am familiar with where they normally eject to. It's the second cartridge empty case that seems to be the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzling issue with Savage 775A (A-5 clone)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:23 pm 
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Why don’t you try some 1 1/8 oz loads like the gun was designed for. If the problem persists, then it’s not an ammo problem

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzling issue with Savage 775A (A-5 clone)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 2184
Location: Missouri
casonet wrote:
Why don’t you try some 1 1/8 oz loads like the gun was designed for. If the problem persists, then it’s not an ammo problem


I agree. I’ve heard of guns working flawlessly with all but the last round in the magazine. I believe this happens because the bolt gets a little extra “shove” from the magazine spring via the next round which is resting on the nose of the Locking Block Latch.

This doesn’t explain why the gun isn’t extracting, but a sluggish action may exhibit all kinds of strange symptoms.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzling issue with Savage 775A (A-5 clone)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:56 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 3378
Location: Newton Kansas
Mine are oiled by CLP.

I remove all the recoil parts, CLP a patch pretty liberally, and rub the magazine tube down well. If this leaves little droplets of liquid on the tube, that is fine.

THEN, I take a dry patch, and take one swipe down the tube to remove any little droplets of liquid, and they run flawlessly.
Now, how long this'd last before a re-oil, I have no idea, I've only run it 400-500 rounds this way at the most. I've never had cause to run them farther.

_________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzling issue with Savage 775A (A-5 clone)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:01 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 3378
Location: Newton Kansas
All too much oil does (other than letting the gun bash) is to oil down and screw up the forearm wood, a bad thing. A balance is needed and isn't hard to come by.

I once on a hunt had to resort (30 yrs ago) to a bottle of 30-wt. chainsaw bar oil (molasses), in DECEMBER in Ks. just a fingertip smear is all it needed to stop her WD-40 (as dad taught) short-stroking all weekend.

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I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzling issue with Savage 775A (A-5 clone)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:09 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 3378
Location: Newton Kansas
Leaving the case in the chamber is a big question.

The A5 design actually extracts when the barrel returns to battery forward.

The bolt doesn't so much pull the empty out as the barrel pulls itself off the empty.

If the empty is left laying in the receiver, I'll guarantee it's a sluggish action because of an over-strong braking system dragging forward.
This exact thing happened to someone else on another board 6 mos. ago.

If it is really leaving the round IN THE CHAMBER then the round is coming off the extractor when the barrel starts forward. If you are mis-typing and it is leaving the round IN THE RECIEVER and not ejecting instead of not extracting, then the barrel's ejector is not hitting the rim hard enough to 'kick' the hull sideways out of the receiver, due to it not returning fwd. fast enough.

In this manner the "next round" MIGHT "help ejection" a bit because it is "filler" for the lower receiver. A round not ejected hard has nowhere to 'drop' into.

_________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzling issue with Savage 775A (A-5 clone)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:11 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 3378
Location: Newton Kansas
Not trying to be picky,, but, especially in cases of mechanical operations, 'terminology matters' as you can see.

Wrong terms or the right terms used in the wrong places confuses things.



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I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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