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 Post subject: Re: How to dispose of live primers?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:40 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:31 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Crystal River Florida
28ga. wrote:
Thanks for the input everyone; just trying to be careful, as is myflatline.

I do not have a loader or hulls, but based on what I read here, guess if I did I would load them...

Did just join a club, guess I could ask around as I get acclimated and see if the club or anyone wants them.

Failing that, I still think a long soak in penetrating oil would disable them for a safe discard.

I already know the answer but...

How many of you all would load this in you $5K o/u and pull the trigger ?

Not worth the chance of hurting me or someone else, much less the gun.
Image

I mentioned a kaboom earlier. It was in metalic loading, ruined a good 357 rifle, thankfully I wear glasses, so I was not blinded. I don't take chances. It was some one else's round that went bad, not mine. I learned a valuable lesson that day.




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 Post subject: Re: How to dispose of live primers?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:17 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 3380
Location: Newton Kansas
Someone else double-charged you, that was nice of them. Probably Bullseye.

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I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: How to dispose of live primers?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:26 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 2990
Location: WY
:roll:
Throw them in your woodstove.

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 Post subject: Re: How to dispose of live primers?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:42 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:31 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Crystal River Florida
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
Someone else double-charged you, that was nice of them. Probably Bullseye.

No doubt on the overcharge, come to find out later , he loved to push the limits. I on the other hand have nothing to prove, so slow and accurate work just fine..:)


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 Post subject: Re: How to dispose of live primers?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:24 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 3380
Location: Newton Kansas
Had he been "pushing the limits" with great big expensive piles of H110/W296, it probably wouldn't have happened.
He was likely saving 2 pennies per load.

A lot of now-open-topped revolvers exist (no top strap and only half a cylinder) because of "high-energy-density" fast burning dense powders like Bullseye and Titegroup (IMR Target) and others.

It's a breeze to double or even triple charge a .357 case with them and be unable to see the difference way down inside that case.

Using 15 or 16 grains of H110 (don't have data in front of me at the moment) costs a lot more (get's half to 1/3rd the ammo made) of 5 or 6 grains of Bullseye.

Heck, as long as they only blow a $500 gun up every 14 or 15 pounds of powder, they have saved money too.

I restrict myself to fluffier and higher-use-weight (slower) powders, I'll pay that $1 per hundred. Most of my loads will overflow at a double-charge, at least they will be WAY brim full. Can't miss that something is wrong.

A guy some years back (maybe 8-10) blew a perfectly good competition M1A into shards and toothpicks at a match. He was using a "low-recoil load" that is apparently popular. 24/25grains or so of IMR4227, in a .308W case that will hold 55gr of it. He missed that he made a double charge (if he'd LOOKED, he'd have seen the powder at the shoulder where none should be).
People with computer programs estimated the pressure level over 200,000psi.
That is impossible to make in a .308 case using the powders I use because a proper charge is a full (usually to the neck) case. I could get a grain or 2 overload, but not 48gr overload.


"Throw them in your woodstove."
Yep, that'll kill them. It'll sound like popcorn a bit (do need to have the wood stove lit first).

_________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: How to dispose of live primers?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:16 pm 
Presentation Grade
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 529
Throw them in the trash. Primers have a minuscule NEW, they are not likely to hurt anyone. You guys act like reloading components are primary explosives and are unstable. Cool fact they aren't unstable explosives. Your gas can for the lawn more is more unstable.

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The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.


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 Post subject: Re: How to dispose of live primers?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:50 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:09 pm
Posts: 150
Location: PA
lugmastro wrote:
T You guys act like reloading components are primary explosives and are unstable.


That is not correct. The compounds used in primers are similar to or the same as those used in blasting caps which are very unstable. Blasting caps are much more dangerous to handle than the explosives they are meant to detonate.

Caution should always be used when handling primers. A single primer can cause injury. A sympathetic explosion of multiple primers could be serious if not devastating.


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 Post subject: Re: How to dispose of live primers?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:22 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 18617
Blasting caps need an electrical charge to detonate - at least the ones we used building the Atlanta subway in the 70s did. And once inserted into the sausage-like explosive (Tovex 210), they were mashed harshly into the 8' drilled hole, followed by more explosives after that. Nothing was dangerous until they were electrically hooked up to the detonator.

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Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: How to dispose of live primers?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:10 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 3380
Location: Newton Kansas
FWP wrote:
lugmastro wrote:
T You guys act like reloading components are primary explosives and are unstable.


That is not correct. The compounds used in primers are similar to or the same as those used in blasting caps which are very unstable. Blasting caps are much more dangerous to handle than the explosives they are meant to detonate.

Caution should always be used when handling primers. A single primer can cause injury. A sympathetic explosion of multiple primers could be serious if not devastating.

Actually YOU are "not correct".

Primer compounds are VERY "stable", they do not self-degrade in any manner, they do not explode from just being shaken or jarred around or from getting too warm, until you get them REALLY hot, like in a fire.
Primer compounds are Impact Sensitive, and that is all they are.
Also not just any impact will set them off.

Go take a primer and drop it on the hard garage floor, won't go off, ever, period.

They require a certain threshold of impact force to set them off, you have to hit them at least so hard, or they ignore you.

Put that primer in a cartridge, load that cartridge (so as to get some weight in there), and start dropping it primer-first onto an expanse of limestone rock such as driveways and walkways are covered with. Sooner or later, once you drop it JUST EXACTLY RIGHT, and it actually hits a pointy rock, almost dead center on the primer, THEN it'll go off.
Try the same thing on a flat expanse of concrete, you'll grow old and feeble trying to set it off, because it just won't happen. Jarring it won't do squat, you have to hit that cup hard enough to dent it FIRMLY, and thus violently drive that cup into the primer compound pellet, mashing it against the anvil.

You can't set them off crushinjg them, you have to HIT them, where is that primer picture of a 209 Curley mashed down to dime-thickness in a vise?
Try to crush it that way with a sledgehammer, I guarantee it'll pop.

In 30+ years of loading metallic cartridges, I have no idea (never tracked) the number of rifle and pistol primers that I have either installed upside down (removing these needlessly panics some people), or crush-mash-mangled sideways.
Not a single one has EVER gone off. Hundreds.

Yes, people with some progressive metallic loaders (I have 3) HAVE set off primers (mostly Dillon 650's), I do not know the exact methodology, but it seems to always relate to dirt/debris/detritus in the priming flow path and a primer getting off-kilter and then being forced through the machine, some shear someplace, then one goes off and it chain-fires the rest all the way back to the primer feed tube, and blows the feed tube contents to the ceiling.

_________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: How to dispose of live primers?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:55 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 529
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
FWP wrote:
lugmastro wrote:
T You guys act like reloading components are primary explosives and are unstable.


That is not correct. The compounds used in primers are similar to or the same as those used in blasting caps which are very unstable. Blasting caps are much more dangerous to handle than the explosives they are meant to detonate.

Caution should always be used when handling primers. A single primer can cause injury. A sympathetic explosion of multiple primers could be serious if not devastating.

Actually YOU are "not correct".

Primer compounds are VERY "stable", they do not self-degrade in any manner, they do not explode from just being shaken or jarred around or from getting too warm, until you get them REALLY hot, like in a fire.
Primer compounds are Impact Sensitive, and that is all they are.
Also not just any impact will set them off.

Go take a primer and drop it on the hard garage floor, won't go off, ever, period.

They require a certain threshold of impact force to set them off, you have to hit them at least so hard, or they ignore you.

Put that primer in a cartridge, load that cartridge (so as to get some weight in there), and start dropping it primer-first onto an expanse of limestone rock such as driveways and walkways are covered with. Sooner or later, once you drop it JUST EXACTLY RIGHT, and it actually hits a pointy rock, almost dead center on the primer, THEN it'll go off.
Try the same thing on a flat expanse of concrete, you'll grow old and feeble trying to set it off, because it just won't happen. Jarring it won't do squat, you have to hit that cup hard enough to dent it FIRMLY, and thus violently drive that cup into the primer compound pellet, mashing it against the anvil.

You can't set them off crushinjg them, you have to HIT them, where is that primer picture of a 209 Curley mashed down to dime-thickness in a vise?
Try to crush it that way with a sledgehammer, I guarantee it'll pop.

In 30+ years of loading metallic cartridges, I have no idea (never tracked) the number of rifle and pistol primers that I have either installed upside down (removing these needlessly panics some people), or crush-mash-mangled sideways.
Not a single one has EVER gone off. Hundreds.

Yes, people with some progressive metallic loaders (I have 3) HAVE set off primers (mostly Dillon 650's), I do not know the exact methodology, but it seems to always relate to dirt/debris/detritus in the priming flow path and a primer getting off-kilter and then being forced through the machine, some shear someplace, then one goes off and it chain-fires the rest all the way back to the primer feed tube, and blows the feed tube contents to the ceiling.

600

+1

_________________
The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.


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 Post subject: Re: How to dispose of live primers?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:55 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 529
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
FWP wrote:
lugmastro wrote:
T You guys act like reloading components are primary explosives and are unstable.


That is not correct. The compounds used in primers are similar to or the same as those used in blasting caps which are very unstable. Blasting caps are much more dangerous to handle than the explosives they are meant to detonate.

Caution should always be used when handling primers. A single primer can cause injury. A sympathetic explosion of multiple primers could be serious if not devastating.

Actually YOU are "not correct".

Primer compounds are VERY "stable", they do not self-degrade in any manner, they do not explode from just being shaken or jarred around or from getting too warm, until you get them REALLY hot, like in a fire.
Primer compounds are Impact Sensitive, and that is all they are.
Also not just any impact will set them off.

Go take a primer and drop it on the hard garage floor, won't go off, ever, period.

They require a certain threshold of impact force to set them off, you have to hit them at least so hard, or they ignore you.

Put that primer in a cartridge, load that cartridge (so as to get some weight in there), and start dropping it primer-first onto an expanse of limestone rock such as driveways and walkways are covered with. Sooner or later, once you drop it JUST EXACTLY RIGHT, and it actually hits a pointy rock, almost dead center on the primer, THEN it'll go off.
Try the same thing on a flat expanse of concrete, you'll grow old and feeble trying to set it off, because it just won't happen. Jarring it won't do squat, you have to hit that cup hard enough to dent it FIRMLY, and thus violently drive that cup into the primer compound pellet, mashing it against the anvil.

You can't set them off crushinjg them, you have to HIT them, where is that primer picture of a 209 Curley mashed down to dime-thickness in a vise?
Try to crush it that way with a sledgehammer, I guarantee it'll pop.

In 30+ years of loading metallic cartridges, I have no idea (never tracked) the number of rifle and pistol primers that I have either installed upside down (removing these needlessly panics some people), or crush-mash-mangled sideways.
Not a single one has EVER gone off. Hundreds.

Yes, people with some progressive metallic loaders (I have 3) HAVE set off primers (mostly Dillon 650's), I do not know the exact methodology, but it seems to always relate to dirt/debris/detritus in the priming flow path and a primer getting off-kilter and then being forced through the machine, some shear someplace, then one goes off and it chain-fires the rest all the way back to the primer feed tube, and blows the feed tube contents to the ceiling.

600

+1



_________________
The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.


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