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 Post subject: e3 formula
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:19 pm
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Wanting to load 7/8 oz in remington hulls with CB8100-12, Win 209 primers and e3 powder.
Anyone have any suggestions on powder drop wt.




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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:39 pm 
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I would use the same powder charge weight the data provides for all those components except using a Win AA hull. It's unlikely using a Rem hull instead of a Win hull is going to do much if anything to the pressure profile of the load.

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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Have you checked the powder manufactures website??

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Steve Y wrote:
Have you checked the powder manufactures website??

Steve
His likely problem is e3 is an Alliant powder and their data tends to give loads with primers made by the same manufacturer as the hull. He probably can't find a load using a Win primer in a Rem hull.

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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:38 pm 
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Steve Y wrote:
Have you checked the powder manufactures website??

Steve

Oh, now, Steve, you know expecting people to do their own research is just asking too much. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:49 pm 
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Vette Jockey wrote:
Steve Y wrote:
Have you checked the powder manufactures website??

Steve

Oh, now, Steve, you know expecting people to do their own research is just asking too much. :wink:
Before you go shooting your mouths off, you might want to look and see if there is any data for the load the OP lists. The reason he is asking is because there isn't any.

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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
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Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
Alliant lists a 17 grain e3 load using Remington TGT-12 wads and Remington primers. They claim 1250 fps and 7820 psi. The CB8100-12 wad is a clone of the Remington TGT-12 wad and since that load generates such low pressure, substituting W209 primers should be a safe load even if the pressure is a little higher.


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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:05 pm 
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^^Another solution. +1

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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:17 pm 
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The wad is a TGT12 clone wad, and was designed for a 1 oz load.

So on that note, you will need to use a filler like a base 20 gauge fiber wad to add some more volume to the shot cup below the shot, and will be safe with the the 7/8oz at 16grs since your working pressures will be slightly load due to the reduced payloads of shot with only 7/8oz instead.
Note, may need to use 2 fiber wads under the cup base before shot to end up with the correct fill stack, and the 16grs will get you close to 1200fps with about 7K working pressure with the 7/8ox of shot.

If your looking to bring the speed up on the load, then same/same with the reduced shot load, but will need to change the primer out to a rem209P to get a better burn with the increased about of powder instead.

And again, Alliant reloading data, and search in the 1oz load for the TGT 12 clone wad.

To really bottom line it, you need a copy of the Lyman #5 shotgun reloading manual, and would help to use the correct wad for the 7/8oz load isntead.

Hence with E3 since it a fast burning power, will not take much powder to hit 1200 fps with a 7/8oz load, something like the CB0175-12 or CB0178-12 wad may be a better choice isntead so you not having to add filler wads to the shot cup to get the correct volume stack in the hull for a great crimp.


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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:10 am 
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My favorite was 17.4 but your stack height would be much better with the cb0178

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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:03 am 
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B.L.E. wrote:
Alliant lists a 17 grain e3 load using Remington TGT-12 wads and Remington primers. They claim 1250 fps and 7820 psi. The CB8100-12 wad is a clone of the Remington TGT-12 wad and since that load generates such low pressure, substituting W209 primers should be a safe load even if the pressure is a little higher.



I have been shooting this load for years in Winchester HS hulls.


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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:45 pm 
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For the OP... I have used a very similar load for my wife. Started at 17.5 grains and worked my way down to a load that provides her very little felt recoil and still cycles her Benelli Legacy. (Thats right I have a Benelli that likes light loads.)

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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Dano523 wrote:
T
To really bottom line it, you need a copy of the Lyman #5 shotgun reloading manual, and would help to use the correct wad for the 7/8oz load isntead.
Alliant released e3 after Lyman's #5 was published. There is no e3 data to be found there.

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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:46 pm 
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Nebs wrote:
Dano523 wrote:
T
To really bottom line it, you need a copy of the Lyman #5 shotgun reloading manual, and would help to use the correct wad for the 7/8oz load isntead.
Alliant released e3 after Lyman's #5 was published. There is no e3 data to be found there.

There are e3 loads in Lyman 5th, just not for 7/8 oz loads. 1oz loads go from 17 to 18 grains with the waa12sl loads in both Remington and Winchester hulls. It was the powder I started using for 7/8 loads and many used it for 3/4oz loads before extra light came out. It is also listed in Lyman 5th for 1 1/8 oz loads at up to 16.5 grains. The cb 0178 is a perfect fit for 17 grains or thereabouts. I shot many thousands of 7/8 loads with 17.4 grains of e3, gun club hull, win 209, and the cb0178. For aahs hulls the tgt12 clone works fine with the same load.

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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:19 pm 
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B.L.E. wrote:
Alliant lists a 17 grain e3 load using Remington TGT-12 wads and Remington primers. They claim 1250 fps and 7820 psi. The CB8100-12 wad is a clone of the Remington TGT-12 wad and since that load generates such low pressure, substituting W209 primers should be a safe load even if the pressure is a little higher.

x2.
Alliant will confirm this primer swap from Rem209p to W209 for you if you call them, as it is more than the 3000 psi below MAP they generally require. I would load that with Win209, CCI209, or Cheddite209 without any issue.

They give the same recipe with the WAA12L also, but about 200 psi less... I personally would prefer the CB0178-12 version of the WAA12L, and use this recipe, myself. But either would be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:32 am
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Location: Eastern VA
I use a lot of e3 with the CB8100-12 wad but with an ounce of shot and WIN209 primers. I really like it ... clean, consistent and not sensitive to the temperature variations experienced in VA. Just a “heads up” ... in my experience, I am able to generate the desired, moderate velocity with less powder than is listed in the Lyman #5 manual which calls out a Remington primer. This has been the case for every jug of e3 I have used. YMMV but it’s worth checking.

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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:38 am 
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FWIW - I regularly swap WW-209 primers for Rem-209 primers.


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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:29 pm 
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Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
I use e3 for light soft shooting 1 1/8 ounce loads. Around 15.2 grains of e3 and 1 1/8 oz of #7.5 shot in Gun Club hulls and CB1118-12 wads with W209 primers and 16 yard trap singles turn into smokeballs without making my shoulder black and blue.
The larger pellets hit harder and thus don't need as much muzzle velocity as #8 shot does for reliable breaks, i.e. no "dust" hits that are called lost.


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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:46 pm 
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B.L.E. wrote:
I use e3 for light soft shooting 1 1/8 ounce loads. Around 15.2 grains of e3 and 1 1/8 oz of #7.5 shot in Gun Club hulls and CB1118-12 wads with W209 primers and 16 yard trap singles turn into smokeballs without making my shoulder black and blue.
The larger pellets hit harder and thus don't need as much muzzle velocity as #8 shot does for reliable breaks, i.e. no "dust" hits that are called lost.
The reason your load are "soft shooting" likely is because you velocity is about 1090 fps. It's not because of the powder.

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 Post subject: Re: e3 formula
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:53 pm 
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Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
Nebs wrote:
B.L.E. wrote:
I use e3 for light soft shooting 1 1/8 ounce loads. Around 15.2 grains of e3 and 1 1/8 oz of #7.5 shot in Gun Club hulls and CB1118-12 wads with W209 primers and 16 yard trap singles turn into smokeballs without making my shoulder black and blue.
The larger pellets hit harder and thus don't need as much muzzle velocity as #8 shot does for reliable breaks, i.e. no "dust" hits that are called lost.
The reason your load are "soft shooting" likely is because you velocity is about 1090 fps. It's not because of the powder.

In a roundabout way it is, e3 is one of the few powders where loads that slow are listed for, and it burns quite clean even at those low velocities.
15 grains is 1090 fps, 15.2 is likely around 1100-1125 fps or there about.
Absolutely no information is listed for 1 1/8 ounce loads for Extra Lite powder.

On the other hand, if you like to shoot 1-1/8 ounce loads at 1250-1300 fps, e3 is the wrong powder for you.




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