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 Post subject: Light Loads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:16 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:09 pm
Posts: 105
I am having a significant problem with light loads from shells loaded on my MEC 9000 28 gauge loader.

I discovered that the bar was not traveling all the way to the left. I fixed this and loaded a batch of once fired hulls. The first and second times I loaded these, I only found a couple light loads. However, when I loaded them the third time things got significantly worse. I took a hundred shells to the range and found 26 that rattled significantly when shaken. Based on my experience this meant that these shells would be light.

I also noticed that of these 26 shells the crimps on most of them had opened slightly since I loaded them. I put these through the final crimp stage again, but that did not stop the rattling. So, I cut a few of them open. They all contained the correct amount of powder. However, about a third of the powder was in the empty space in the middle of the wads. I use Claybuster CB1034 wads. A friend suggested I change to Winchester wads. Does anyone think this will help?

Please let me know if you have any suggestions.




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 Post subject: Re: Light Loads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:44 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:00 pm
Posts: 903
Location: north carolina
Sounds like you have powder migration going on. If you are using AAHS hulls you should have the 5034 claybuster wads as they are a larger diameter than the 1034 wads. The 1034 wads are for the older AACF winchester hulls. The 5034 wad is red not pink in color.


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 Post subject: Re: Light Loads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:20 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:09 pm
Posts: 105
Thanks. I will try that.

Does anyone have any idea why the shells' crimps are partially opening.


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 Post subject: Re: Light Loads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:31 pm 
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jlssd1 wrote:
Does anyone have any idea why the shells' crimps are partially opening.




Not enough crimp to begin with?? Or too much "stuff" in the hull. What powder and how much are you using? Are you loading 3/4oz. of shot?

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Light Loads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:36 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:09 pm
Posts: 105
I am loading 3/4 oz. I am using 13.5 grains of Aliant 20/28 powder.


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 Post subject: Re: Light Loads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:40 pm 
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jlssd1 wrote:
I am loading 3/4 oz. I am using 13.5 grains of Aliant 20/28 powder.



That will fit in an HS hull just fine, I do it all the time. So we are back to not enough crimp ( deep enough) to start with. Possible?


Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Light Loads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:22 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Central Texas
You are using the wrong wad for 28 Win AAHS hulls. Use the CB 5034-28 with 3/4 oz shot and your 20/28 powder an all should fit very well. Check the Alliant Guide on page 68.


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 Post subject: Re: Light Loads
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:09 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 933
Folks want to help you solve your problem--me included!-- but you're sure not setting the problem up for a successful solution hey? No insult intended to you, but I'm hoping this post will jar you out of your mindset of assuming folks know what you're loading, and you'll actually post the recipe.
Someone has to say it... if you post here looking for advice on why you load is not performing, powder is migrating, and crimps are opening-- don't you think you should give folks the ENTIRE recipe that you're using???
-- in your first post, you gave only the wad; you didn't mention the hull, shot charge, or powder.
--in your 2nd post you still didn't tell what your load was or the wad/hull deal.
-- in your 3rd post you gave the shot and powder, but you still didn't mention the hull, even after folks pointed out that the hull/wad being incorrectly matched was likely the problem


--- If you're using the CB1034 wad and NOT using the old Win AACF hulls that stopped being produced in 2003 or so, then you're using the incorrect diameter wad and discovering why every recipe published clearly states which wad to use with which Win 28ga hull.
--- If you ARE using the old compression formed single piece hull (no separate basewad), then there is some other problem, but I don't believe 20/28 can migrate past the 1034 wad in a CF hull en mass.
Best regards.


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 Post subject: Re: Light Loads
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:09 pm
Posts: 105
Sorry about that. I should have thought that through a little better. I am using AAHS hulls. I'm going to try the other wads and adjusting the crimp.


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 Post subject: Re: Light Loads
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
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Location: Newton Kansas
The right wad will stop the powder migration.

That much powder migration effectively wrecks stack height because it lets the wad sit lower on the smaller powder charge.

If the stack height isn't too tall, the crimps won't pop.

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 Post subject: Re: Light Loads
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 933
jlssd1 wrote:
Sorry about that. I should have thought that through a little better. I am using AAHS hulls. I'm going to try the other wads and adjusting the crimp.


Good reply, and glad to hear it was an easy fix!
The WinAA vs. HS can be a pain-- they're the same in 12ga and 20ga, but in 28ga they are different.

I load the same recipe as you, although my #17 bushing actually drops 13.2gr of 20/28. With the CB5034-HS wad and 3/4oz, it's a perfect shell so I'm sure you'll solve the crimp issue as soon as you use those solid red wads. Also, I like the CB version better than the original Win AAHS wads, for price mostly although the stack is perfect with 20/28 too.

BTW, I tried to get Alliant to tell me an acceptable primer swap from the Win209 in that load, about 2 weeks ago, but they wouldn't commit to anything, not even CCI209. These days they won't go on record for anything without a minimum of 3000 psi below SAAMI MAP, which 20/28 doesn't have.




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