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 Post subject: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:12 pm 
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Location: Mechanicsville IA
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The Farm Bill isn’t going to save a way of life that for practical purposes no longer exists, nor is it going to bring back that way of life. In fact, a century of agricultural subsidies and welfare programs are at least partially responsible for killing off the family farm as we once knew it. Those subsidies and programs attracted people who were more interested in the subsidies and programs than in the farming. In this case, literally, the one percent.

Don’t reform the Farm Bill. Kill it.


From a far left source and essentially correct. We essentially launder money for agri-business and don't forget the bulk of the farm bill goes to food stamps.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/06/13 ... e-welfare/



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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:47 pm 
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The farm bill worked as intended. It bought a lot of farmers votes.

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:14 pm 
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Bought votes for both sides which is what happens when democrats and republicans play nice with each other.

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:56 pm 
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Those were sure expensive votes if farmers are only one percent of the population.

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:28 am 
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The United States has nearly a twenty trillion dollar a year economy, and the farm bill provides about a hundred billion a year for the benefit of farmers.

Eighty billion of that, is to give food tokens to poor folks so they won't go hungry, and the farmers get the market for feeding them.

Twenty billion or so, is to directly benefit the farmers themselves. The annual amount varies quite a bit, depending on crop prices.

It's all optional government, except for one program.

The government spends between five to ten billion dollars a year to subsidize crop insurance.

Modern farming methods require outlay of hundreds of dollars an acre to plant crops, and banks require crop insurance before lending to the farmer the money for them to plant.

Mess that up, and if the fields lie fallow for just one year, it would be a disaster of biblical proportions.

The danger is, that for the last half century or more, the Democrats get food programs for the least of these, in return for voting subsidies to the landholders that raise the crops, and some year the whole process may break down in a ugly spasm of partisanship, and the banks won't loan for crops without federal guarantees and subsides for crop insurance.

Americans spend about sixty billion a year to take care of and feed their pets.

The last tax bill will add over a trillion dollars to the deficit over the next ten years.

Five or ten billion dollars to keep the banks lending to plant crops, is less than pocket change for the government.

Back when my father farmed his 200 acres of cropland and another 178 acres he rented with a Ford Jubilee and a Farmall M he didn't need to borrow much, if any, to plant his crops.

But he was lucky to get forty bushels an acre of corn, and today forty bushels would be a crop failure, and the tractors and no till drills used today would plant all his land he plowed, disced, harrowed, and seeded before noon,,,but it takes a lot of borrowed money to do that.

We cannot go backwards, and we can't afford to stand still. The only way for America to go is forward.

I'm too old fashioned to ever be a conservative today.

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:37 am 
Crown Grade

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If you own land as an investor with a good city job you receive the benefit of farm subsidies either directly or your renter launders those subsidies through higher rent.
Talked to several people who wanted to purchase land but they could not compete with monied interests needed to spend money on their 1031 exchange or else pay taxes. Equally hard to shake land loose away from large farmers who live on tight margins and farming the government.
Just for general info I will give some information on what appears to be a poverty stricken area of substandard land in Missouri. They don't get near what is given around here.
Democrats cannot see or speak no evil on government farm issues but they sure the heck make up for it on doing evil.
Quote:
1 Gerald Vanderford Wiggins, MS 39577 $406,806
2 Francka Farm * Bolivar, MO 65613 $396,019
3 Larry Drake Bolivar, MO 65613 $295,791
4 Hensley Dairy Inc * Half Way, MO 65663 $279,808
5 Virgil Hines Trust Walnut Grove, MO 65770 $200,353
6 Frank J Samek Bolivar, MO 65613 $168,845
7 Samek Dairy L L C * Bolivar, MO 65613 $158,807
8 Leroy Seiner Humansville, MO 65674 $144,550
9 Wm G Francka Bolivar, MO 65613 $136,161

https://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fip ... y,Missouri

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:28 am 
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LeRoy Seiner and his wife Jo were family friends, and his daughter was the music teacher at the Humansville school for many years.

Obituary for LeRoy Seiner
Leroy Seiner, 82, of Humansville passed away Wednesday, July 3, 2013 at Mercy Hospital in Springfield. The son of Cecil and Esther Seiner, he was born July 6, 1930 in Bolivar. Leroy graduated from eighth grade at South Ward Grade School in Bolivar. He attended high school for a short time but left school to work on the family farm. Leroy was united in marriage to Jo Maxine Harville September 17, 1950. They were married nearly 60 years before her death. After working in the Kansas City area while also milking cows on his farm in Excelsior Springs, Leroy and Jo returned to Polk County to the family farm, eventually moving to Humansville where they purchased a farm and began their dairy operation,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

His daughter rented the house I grew up from my mother, when Mama moved to town in 2001.

Leroy Seiner, and the rest of those dairy farmers, were Republicans, the same as we were. Here's what Seiner received from 1995 until he died in 2013.

1995 $0 $0 $0 $0
1996 $0 $0 $0 $0
1997 $0 $0 $1,243 $1,243
1998 $0 $0 $0 $0
1999 $0 $0 $5,845 $5,845
2000 $0 $1,810 $23,030 $24,840
2001 $0 $2,620 $0 $2,620
2002 $0 $6,827 $29,713 $36,540
2003 $0 $0 $31,956 $31,956
2004 $0 $0 $4,866 $4,866
2005 $0 $0 $108 $108
2006 $0 $0 $11,089 $11,089
2007 $0 $0 $2,009 $2,009
2008 $0 $15,758 $0 $15,758
2009 $0 $0 $23,683 $23,683
2010 $0 $0 $973 $973
2011 $0 $0 $0 $0
2012 $0 $0 $7,224 $7,224
2013 $0 $0 $2,813 $2,813
2014 $0 $0 $0 $0
2015 $0 $0 $0 $0
2016 $0 $0 $0 $0
Total $0 $27,015 $144,550 $171,565
Crop Summary for Leroy Seiner

Edgar Proctor and Jimmy Proctor milked cows for my father when we went on vacation every year.

Jimmy has passed on, but I suppose Edgar is still alive, but it looks like he's quit the dairy business.

Here's what Edgar Proctor got, from 1995 through 2014:

1995 $0 $0 $0 $0
1996 $0 $0 $0 $0
1997 $0 $0 $500 $500
1998 $0 $0 $0 $0
1999 $0 $0 $3,848 $3,848
2000 $0 $0 $13,339 $13,339
2001 $2,485 $6,907 $0 $9,392
2002 $0 $7,565 $18,214 $25,779
2003 $0 $0 $22,162 $22,162
2004 $5,093 $0 $4,285 $9,378
2005 $0 $0 $54 $54
2006 $3,494 $0 $10,366 $13,860
2007 $0 $0 $2,323 $2,323
2008 $0 $5,320 $0 $5,320
2009 $0 $0 $31,214 $31,214
2010 $0 $0 $1,420 $1,420
2011 $0 $0 $0 $0
2012 $0 $0 $13,328 $13,328
2013 $0 $0 $5,665 $5,665
2014 $0 $30,008 $0 $30,008
2015 $0 $0 $0 $0
2016 $0 $0 $0 $0
Total $11,072 $49,800 $126,717 $187,58

Those Repulicans were small dairy operators. They milked cows twice a day for over fifty years, every day of the year. Those payments were disaster payments or milk price supports, so children could have milk.

I have to explain to my children, why I was ever a Republican, and one of the reasons is that back when I was a Republican we believed the government should keep small dairies in operation so as to provide cheap milk in the stores, and enable family dairy farms to compete with huge dairies owned by large corporations.

But I suppose it's just an excuse.

The Republican party then, isn't the Republican party today.

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:31 am 
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Neither is the Democrat party.

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:21 am 
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casonet wrote:
Neither is the Democrat party.


The Democratic Party today in the middle of Missouri serves exactly the same role as those old Campbellite churches used to serve.

It's a search for the most righteous policy.

Everybody is welcome, nobody is judged, and the doors are always open.

The days of hippies and war protesters and saving the whales, are long gone.

The people at the meetings resemble LeRoy Seiner, and Edgar and Jimmy Proctor, and those old sons of the pioneer farmers.

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:48 am 
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I’m sorry, but your vision of the Democrat party in central MO is far from the party of Nancy Pelosi and Corey Booker. Get real.

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:01 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:01 pm 
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My grandfather first moved on this piece of land 100 years ago with he and then my father renting it until the land ladies decided they wanted to sell, now! My father looked at all the options including buying a dying hardware store in a small town and scraped together all the money he could and bought the home place in 1964 and the next farm south three years later despite advice that the purchase would break him.
Oh how he complained about the democrats and all the damage that LBJ was doing to this country, that dang Vietnam War and all that welfare. And then that new Johnson Grass was the worst grass to control that he ever dealt with.
He also believed that no man was worth the money a doctor or lawyer made, that they should be happy to serve and help their fellow humans, what greater reward could there be.
He complained about how the soil bank could allow you to buy a farm without doing anything more than mowing and how some brazen souls would turn their livestock into a cornfield before harvest and collect government payments from crop loss and then be pious in church.
The government programs have ruined the "neighboring" that went on and gave a good life to my rural areas and small towns.
I have two real farmers adjacent to me and several professionals diversifying their portfolios along with several 1031 multi millionaires. Hertz Farm Management does quite well.
I was one of the last small operators to add to my holdings before everything went bonkers.
So who really does not need government subsidy payments?

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:10 pm 
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casonet wrote:
I’m sorry, but your vision of the Democrat party in central MO is far from the party of Nancy Pelosi and Corey Booker. Get real.


I hardly ever see any old time liberals at the meetings.

Nancy Pelosi and Corey Booker are urban Democrats.

And to be fair, we don't see very many hard core right wingers among our Republican friends, either. Most of the Republicans we know are individually righteous people.

I think Fox News and the rest of the "conservative media" has done more to suck the righteousness out of the Republican party than anything else. You didn't used to hear people cussing the public schools, unions, and mocking the poor and scorning the needy, unless they were grouchy old men in the beer joint or the barbershops. Something has turned the Grand Old Party into the Party of Trump.

There are still righteous national Republicans. John McCain, the Bush family, Bob Corker, and many more that fear the consequences of speaking out against Trumpism, being cast out, shunned by their friends, and called names.

Nobody was raised, surely, to have anything to do with the likes of Donald Trump and all Trumpism represents.

None of us raised as Republicans in the Ozarks of fifty and more years ago, were, for certain sure.

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:41 pm 
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SuperXOne wrote:
casonet wrote:
Neither is the Democrat party.


The Democratic Party today in the middle of Missouri serves exactly the same role as those old Campbellite churches used to serve.

It's a search for the most righteous policy.

Everybody is welcome, nobody is judged, and the doors are always open.

The days of hippies and war protesters and saving the whales, are long gone.

The people at the meetings resemble LeRoy Seiner, and Edgar and Jimmy Proctor, and those old sons of the pioneer farmers.


What in Hades is righteous about abortion and homosexuality?


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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Quote:
What in Hades is righteous about abortion and homosexuality?


Or encouraging people to violate US immigration law?

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Take your pick.

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Oh, don’t you know? It’s the “new” Christianity.

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:56 pm 
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I'll be damned if it's Christianity. :D

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Take your pick.

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:04 pm 
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The Baptists, the Methodists, the Catholics, and most all the other Christians have guidance from their church authorities as to what is and isn't, proper Christian ethics, morals, and behavior. They are more alike than different, but there are enough differences in dogmas, doctrines, and creeds between the various Christian churches to have over 30,000 separate denominations in the United States, alone.

The Restorationist Christian Church, or Campbellites, or Christian Church (nondenominational) or whatever you might call the Campbell tradition Christian Church like the Humansville Christian church was fifty years ago,,,claims to have no creed but Christ, and to be Christians only, but not the only Christians. They'll have open communion every time their doors open, and those doors are never locked. They have no dogmas, doctrines, or creeds. Every church is ran by the board of elders. Every member decides for themselves on all nonessential matters of scripture. In all essentials, we have unity.

But the individual decides on what is essential, and what isn't. The doors are never locked, so you can come and go as you please. If the member can't agree with the majority of the church on the essentials, they get up and politely leave. They are always free to come back.

And they were the most strict, stern, bible reading, conservative church anybody could imagine. They believed and practiced Matthew 25:40 in preparation for a judgement at the end of the world, where Christ would judge them on nobody's record but their own.

I notice that Martin Prairie Farms is missing from the list of big subsidy recipients in Polk
County. Freddie Martin and my father were chosen and elected elders of the Christian Church, together. Martin took over as the Superintendent when my father died of an infection in 1971. He may still be today.

Freddie Martin milks over five hundred head of Holsteins. He's far too big of an operator to qualify for government subsidies, and I'm a bit surprised to see a Vanderford dairy as first on the list, but I hear they've shut down too, probably five years ago. They were considered a large family dairy, near Flemington, along with Martin, who is closer to Humansville.

Freddie Martin has a dormitory where he keeps Hispanic immigrants, who milk his cows. I understand he uses the HB visa program, and being Campbellite he'll comply strictly with all laws and treat his employees humanely and like he would Christ, Himself.

By and by, when Martin faces the last judgement, I wonder what will happen to his big dairy operation. I understand now, that five and even ten thousand cow operations are commonplace, and Martin's farm will never handle that many cows.

My Daddy tried to keep 25 Holsteins milking. Back then a big operator had fifty, and really big operations might have a hundred, but at that level hiring employees was required.

No Christian I know of, likes government subsidies, wealthy absentee landlords, abortions, strip joints, beer joints, booze, drugs, government lotteries, or any of the other vices of this old sin cussed world we are only here for a while on.

But the Christian, lives the Christian life by thought, word, act, deed, and example.

It bears no relationship whatsoever to the wicked selfishness I see promoted on Fox News.

If you don't want to engage in vices, then live righteously.

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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:20 pm 
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You support vices and immorality by your support of the democrat party. Won't be no hokey stories and country music videos allowed on judgement day.


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 Post subject: Re: The end result of subsidies and welfare
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:35 pm 
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lossking wrote:
You support vices and immorality by your support of the democrat party. Won't be no hokey stories and country music videos allowed on judgement day.


Nobody would ever go to all the trouble to attend a Campbellite Church at least three times a week if the music wasn't good and there weren't good stories with a moral lesson.

The idea of all that, always has been to get folks to read their bibles and make up their minds what will happen to them on Judgement Day.

But back to our farm bill story.

The Environmental Working Group is not exactly a fan of the Trump administration or conservatives or Republicans, it seems to me. Here's today's news from EWG, that subsidy shames big operators by publishing their subsidies on their web site:

FRIDAY, JUNE 15, 2018
On Monday, EWG’s Senior Vice President for Government Affairs Scott Faber joined Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, at an event on the farm bill and subsidies sponsored by the Heritage Foundation. EWG argued that farm subsidies should be a safety net, not a handout.

“Americans support providing farmers with the tools they need to manage the ups and down of agriculture,” Faber said. “But farm subsidies should only flow to farmers who need help, and who actually live and work on the farm.”

On Wednesday, the Senate Committee on Agriculture approved a bipartisan farm bill, which came in sharp contrast to the terrible, partisan farm bill proposed by the House.

The Senate bill preserves funding for anti-hunger, conservation and energy programs. It also provides new mandatory funding for programs that link farmers with local consumers and support organic farmers. Although more conservation spending is needed to address the health impacts of farm pollution, the Senate bill includes important reforms that will better target and leverage conservation programs to protect sources of drinking water.

And still under fire from revelations about his mounting conflicts of interest and abuses of office, Environmental Protection Agency chief Scott Pruitt has reportedly instructed his staff to go slow on complying with Freedom of Information Act requests. Two of Pruitt’s former aides told the House Oversight Committee that their boss told the agency’s staff not to comply with any FOIAs targeting the Trump administration until all the backlogged requests from the Obama administration have been finished.

“Who can blame Pruitt for taking steps to keep the public in the dark?” EWG President Ken Cook asked. “Every time the EPA releases documents through a FOIA request, more revelations come to light showing he’s not only the worst EPA administrator in history, but also the most corrupt cabinet secretary in modern times.”

Then on Thursday, Sen. John Barrasso, R-Wyo., the Republican chairman of the Senate committee with oversight of the EPA, announced plans to compel Pruitt to testify specifically in response to his many scandals and alleged abuses of office.

“Scott Pruitt’s low-rent grifting has finally become an albatross for those who have supported and defended him even as the scandals and investigations mounted,” Cook said. “It’s one thing when Pruitt’s swamp stench lingers over only him, but it appears to be infiltrating the airspace around Republicans in Congress and President Trump.”

And to wrap up the week, the Senate Appropriations Committee passed a spending bill that includes language requiring the Trump administration to release a key scientific study on proposed safe levels for fluorinated, or PFAS, chemicals in drinking water. The report, which the Trump administration tried to bury, recommends health guidelines set at levels up to 10 times lower than those the EPA has set.

The amendment to the committee report, authored by Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, D-N.H., and approved in the Interior-Environmental spending bill, directs the Department of Health and Human Services to publish the study within two weeks of the bill becoming law.

“Scott Pruitt and the White House clearly will do anything to hide information from the public on any number of issues, including the poisoned drinking water of 100 million Americans,” said EWG Senior Vice President of Government Affairs Scott Faber. “But lawmakers from both sides of the aisle understand full well how important clean drinking water is for their constituents and all Americans.”

Here’s some more news you can use as you head into the weekend.

-----------------

Guess they'll never get invited to the White House to meet with Donald.:)



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