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 Post subject: Remington 209 vs 209P primers
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:55 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:40 am
Posts: 16
Can anyone explain what the difference is?
I know that the 209s are older and no longer made.

I'm looking to use Rem 209 primers to reload AA-HS 28 ga.
Hodgdon's data lists: 3/4 oz.shot; Universal with the Rem. PT28 wad & the REM. 209P primer.

Can I safely substitute the 209s?


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 209 vs 209P primers
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:12 pm 
Reloading Expert
Reloading Expert

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:48 am
Posts: 1743
Location: Lawton, Oklahoma
I believe that all of the Remington 209-type primers always had a covered flash hole. If that's true and yours does, then they can be substituted with no problems.

Remington hasn't really changed their primers since they got away from the 57-size and the old 97* primers. They've added designations (e.g., P for Premier) and now have the STS primer. The current actual designation is 209PSTS for Premier Skeet, Trap, Sporting.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 209 vs 209P primers
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:40 am
Posts: 16
Thanks very much for that info OKShotgunner, it's good to hear. I have the 209 for 12 ga. and don't really want to have to stock another type if I don't have to.

Regards,
Mercury.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 209 vs 209P primers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:49 pm
Posts: 56
I picked up some old Remington "Kleanbore" primers , No. 69 for nothing, they actually fall out of my reloads, got about 5 thousand.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 209 vs 209P primers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:39 pm
Posts: 555
Location: Upstate NY
CAUTION,
Remington states that the new 209P & the old 209 are not interchangeable as the 209 is hotter than the new 209P.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 209 vs 209P primers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:55 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:40 am
Posts: 16
fastfire,

I see what you're talking about; it's on Remington's web site. The 209 is hotter.
I've emailed Hodgdon for a recipe recommendation using the 209 as a substitute.

The 209 is probably still safe to use with less powder since Hodgdon has a load using the CCI 209M (magnum) primer which uses .4 GRs. less.

I'm hoping that they come through with a recipe.

I'll get back with their response.

Thanks for all of the responses. I'm a newbie here and I appreciate the advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 209 vs 209P primers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:02 pm 
Reloading Expert
Reloading Expert

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:48 am
Posts: 1743
Location: Lawton, Oklahoma
Would someone please give a specific reference to the Remington web page that cautions about the Rem. 209 and 209P. I've looked and can't find it.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 209 vs 209P primers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:40 am
Posts: 16
OKshotgunner,

Here you go. It was a little tough to find, I had to go to the On-Line Help Center under Reloading and run a search on 209 primers.

http://remington.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/r ... _topview=1

Regards, Mercury.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 209 vs 209P primers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:40 am
Posts: 16
Since I didn't get a response from my email, I phoned Hodgdon and spoke to Dave.

He said that I should not have any problems with substituting the Rem. 209 primers for the 209P.

Just to be on the safe side, I'm going to start out using 14.2 GR. (MEC bushing #18) of Universal instead of the 14.5. Hodgdon also lists a recipe for the CCI 209M (magnum) primers, it's 14.1 GRs so 14.2 seems like a good place to start.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 209 vs 209P primers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:39 pm
Posts: 555
Location: Upstate NY
OKShotgunner wrote:
Would someone please give a specific reference to the Remington web page that cautions about the Rem. 209 and 209P. I've looked and can't find it.



OKShotgunner,
If you have a Alliant manual you will also see they state
that the 209 & the 209P are not interchangeable.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 209 vs 209P primers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:20 pm 
Reloading Expert
Reloading Expert

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:48 am
Posts: 1743
Location: Lawton, Oklahoma
Sometimes things are, or become, somewhat peculiar. Years ago when the Remington 209 was around, many of us would use them, the 97*, and the Winchester 209 interchangeably. Our impression at the time was that that the Remington primers were about the same and both were milder than Winchester primers.

Back then, of course, we didn't have pressure equipment, and chronographs were scarce although I had one. I know I did quite a bit of chronographing, and more or less standard target loads in the AA hull did not show any significant differences simply because of the primer being used. Yeah, I know this is not definitive because it quite often takes a moderately significant variation in pressure to register a detectable velocity variation.

Now we come to the Remington statement. "...the 209 (non-Premier) was slightly hotter [than the 209P]." Sounds like lawyer-induced weasel words to me. Still, I suppose that some of the flat statements like, "Rem. 209 is 'hotter' and cannot be substituted for Rem. 97* or Rem. 209P primer," are necessary given the direction our litigious society has taken.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 209 vs 209P primers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 72
I needed some rem 209 primers for a load using red dot and couldn't find any. I emailed alliant and Ben told me to use the win 209 primer and reduce the powder by half a grain.
Mike


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