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 Post subject: Difference in Shotgun Stocks
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:08 am 
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Every shotgun I have ever shot has had a pistol grip type stock. I've noticed that many of the lighter upland hunting shotguns that I have seen have the straight "English" type stocks.

Why are there two different styles? What is the functional difference between the two?



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 Post subject: Re: Difference in Shotgun Stocks
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:39 am 
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Shotguns for upland bird hunting often carry a straight grip because of tradition. Many of the older double barrels were made in England where straight grip is preferred for its style. Today, straight grip shotguns reminds the shooters of these older, more expensive shotguns.

I am not sure it there is a functional difference between a straight grip and pistol grip shotguns. If any, the difference would be in the felt recoil (more for a straight stock) and handling (a more consistant grip position with a pistol stock, I think).


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in Shotgun Stocks
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:45 am 
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The most important difference is that straight "English" stocks look pretty on SxS guns.

Straight stocks are traditional on SxS's, usually those with 2 triggers. They are occasionally used on other types of guns, but they look out of place.

As far as function is concerned, it is a matter of personal preference. Some people claim that a straight stock is better for a gun with double triggers, because you can slide your hand back for the second barrel. I don't think that holds water: analyze the way you shoot and most other people shoot, and you will see that good shooters do not move the hand between shots, even on a straight stock.

The bottom line is, use the type of stock you like the looks and feel of.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in Shotgun Stocks
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 11:13 am 
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According to Michael Macintosh, the straight stock was deliberately designed to prevent the shooter from gripping the stock tightly with the trigger hand, so that the forward hand will be the one controlling the pointing of the gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in Shotgun Stocks
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 11:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:38 pm
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The English (straight) stock will mount noticeably quicker but it is also much less comfortable to carry in the crook of your arm.

P_102


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in Shotgun Stocks
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 2:51 pm 
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I think the biggest advantage to a straight grip is that it allows your rear hand to be on the same plane as your front hand, both of which are more in line with the axis of the bore. This aids your natural ability to point. One of the bonuses is that a straight grip does help keep you from getting that rear hand "death grip" that all too many people have.
I'm with Mr. Ben on the hand moving thing. A good shooter will never move his hand while switching triggers.
Personally, I love them. Even my BPS pumpgun has a straight grip. I do still shoot pistol grip guns but I'll take a straight grip any day.
Quote:
Many of the older double barrels were made in England where straight grip is preferred for its style. Today, straight grip shotguns reminds the shooters of these older, more expensive shotguns.

It's got nothing to do with nostalgia or style. Many of the finest shotguns today are still made with straight grips because they work. This is something the British discovered years ago but North American shooters seem to have resisted.
If you've only shot pistol grip then a straight grip will feel odd but I'll tell ya, once you get the hang of them going back to a pistol grip can feel like you're wing shooting with and assault rifle.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in Shotgun Stocks
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:49 pm 
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The english or straight stock is made for double trigger guns so that the hand can move from one trigger to the other. Nothing to do with style or nostalgia.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in Shotgun Stocks
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 5:30 am 
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Chaco1 wrote:
The english or straight stock is made for double trigger guns so that the hand can move from one trigger to the other. Nothing to do with style or nostalgia.


Got to agree with you on that. I shoot a sxs shs with double triggers and it makes it a lot easier to quickly move your hand from one trigger to the other - especially if you fire the choke barrel (rear trigger first) at a distant incoming bird, and then want to take an over head shot at a closer bird - especially so with driven birds - which is what a shs was intended for.

A nice compromise is the Prince of Wales grip or semi pistol grip - sort of half way between a shs and pistol grip. The browning rounded pistol grip is almost there but not quite. The browning rpg is in my opinion one of the most comfortable grips you can find on a shotgun (and elegant) - not being too "fat" or at an extreme uncomfortable angle like the new 525 stocks. I also have a new 525 which is going to be modified to a rounded pistol grip.

jonty


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in Shotgun Stocks
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 7:08 am 
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I am no expert. Take a look at these extracts from a similar discussion going on www.Nitroexpress.com

Quote:
Pulling the stock firmly into the shoulder is popularly believed to reduce felt recoil: definitely facilitated by a pistol-grip and hampered by a straight grip. Even shotguns designed for heavy loads, typically pidgeon-guns for example, invariably featured at least a semi-pistol grip (either 'bag-grip' or 'Prince o' Wales' grip). The pistol-grip is for recoil control, pure and simple.



Quote:
A straight stock will produce less perceived recoil. This is because the line of recoil force is closer to the line of resistance so the gun or rifle does not rise up as much in recoil. Try shooting a Winchester M1894. The 30-30 is no thumper, but the M1894 will punish you more than my 400-360 becasue it has excess drop.

However, the choice is not driven by recoil considerations, but rather fit while aiming or pointing. The classic british double gun has a straight stock and splinter forend which causes the shooter to tend to shoot a bit higher, desirable when shooting at driven birds passing over head. (Coming in above the gun.) Guns with a pistol grip need to have a beavertail forend to compensate for the pistol grip, increasing the overall weight. For rough shooting (upland hunting here in the US.) the gun should follow the driven bird gun pattern or may have a slight pistol grip (Prince of Wales grip.) or a full pistol grip and a semi-beavertail forearm to cause the shooter to tend to shoot a bit lower.


It is about Double Rifles. But, they are also discussing shotguns.Makes sense to me.

Mr.Ben and other experts, could you please take a look at this link and let us know what you think of this?

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat ... o=&fpart=1


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in Shotgun Stocks
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 7:21 am 
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ShotgunT's pretty much on it. The type of grip used is pretty much decided by trying to put both hands on the same plane for natural pointability. The straight grip best fits a SxS with a splinter forend. The barrels are almost laying in your palm, the rear hand is then on almost on the same plane. Once you change to a heavy beavertail forend, or to an O/U, semi, or pump, the purpose of the straight grip is pretty much negated.
While the straight grip is less restrictive as to how you hold the gun, once mounted the rear hand should not move dependent on the trigger used. The old saw about moving the rear hand to change triggers is bunk, in my opinion.
All this said, I hesitate to argue with success. Now that you know the intent behind the type of grip, use what works.
Luck,
Jim

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in Shotgun Stocks
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:35 pm
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Location: Sunny Florida!
I appreciate the input. I am considering a small gauge over/under purchase and wondered if there would be a difference.

The specific shotgun I'm considering has the "Prince of Wales" type stock which seems to be a compromise between the two. Using my incredibly non-proficient shotgun skills, I doubt if I would be able to tell any noticeable difference in using any of the stocks! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in Shotgun Stocks
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 5:11 am 
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drj211 wrote:
I appreciate the input. I am considering a small gauge over/under purchase and wondered if there would be a difference.

The specific shotgun I'm considering has the "Prince of Wales" type stock which seems to be a compromise between the two. Using my incredibly non-proficient shotgun skills, I doubt if I would be able to tell any noticeable difference in using any of the stocks! :lol:


go for it - no hesitation, that would be, and is my choice (Prince of Wales / RPG) for an over/under. If you are in any doubt shoulder the gun a few times, and then shoulder another with a different type grip straight afterwards (hopefully a gun of the same make and calibre) if it feels right - as I am sure it will - you will have made your own choice. Furthermore, that type of grip on a small calibre looks really nice - a full pistol grip on a "small" gun can look totally out of scale. The grip staying more or less the same size regardless of calibre / gauge, and the rest of the gun being scaled down.

In my experience if it looks right it will usually feel right - and half the battle and fun of using a gun accurately is taking pleasure in its appearance - if you like the look of it and respect it - you will no doubt also shoot better with it.

As another member of the forum says : "lifes too short to shoot with an ugly gun" :lol: :wink: :P :shock:

jonty




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