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 Post subject: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 9:09 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:17 pm
Posts: 114
I have a Beretta 391 that is really bruising my cheek. Consulted with gunsmith (who is also a pro shooter) at my club and experimented with a "loaner" adjustable butt plate. Works well -now I need to order one (or send my gun off to someone who installs them) and get a plate that matches the dimensions of my stock.

I see Gracoil, Jomes and Morgan plates advertised. Which is better ??? Are there others that I should look at ???

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 9:55 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:43 pm
Posts: 974
Location: Irmo, SC
A pro shooter? Never heard of a pro.

I had one installed on my SKB a couple years ago. I went with a Graco, due to the adjustability of it. Jones and Morgan do not allow adjustment for LOP, Graco does. I watched him do it, trust me, let a skilled gunsmith do it for you. They don't make one that fits every gun. They have to be custom fitted.


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 12:07 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:17 pm
Posts: 114
Chris Ferres wrote:
A pro shooter? Never heard of a pro.

I watched him do it, trust me, let a skilled gunsmith do it for you.


1. Sorry about my terminology. To me, anyone who regularly breaks 100/100 is a pro. In the future I'll just say he's a "good shooter." My point was that he is a good shooter in addition to being a good gunsmith.

2. When you say you watched "him" do it, did you go to Graco ? Or is this something any good gunsmith can install ?


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 12:23 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 4313
Location: Brillion, WI
If your 391 is brusing your cheek and lowering an adjustable butt plate corrects it, you may be mounting your gun too low on your shouder. It should be even or close to even with the top of your shoulder depending on the shooting discipline with which you are involved.

The reason a low gun mount would cause cheek pain that can be eliminated with a stock adjuster is that when you place your cheek on a gun that is mounted too low, the more sensitive, forward portion of your cheek (more pain receptors) is making contact with the comb.

Too little pitch on the stock is the most commom cause for cheek pain. Check to see if the entire pad, top to bottom, is making simultaneous contact with your shoulder when you mount your gun. If it doesn't, you should consider having the pitch corrected.

Also check the height of the heel of the pad on your shoulder to see if it is near the level of the top of your shoulder. You may be able to easily raise the height of your gun mount and reduce the necessary forward tilt of your neck. This would change the contact point of your cheek on the comb, moving it to the rear as well as broaden the area that makes contact.

My advice is to avoid Morgan adjustables. Jones adjusters are the thinnest available and would be my choice if I didn't need to lengthen the stock very much. With identical gun mounts, a Jones would only move your head back just over half an inch.

Also note that if you either raise your gun mount or have a stock adjuster installed, you won't need the stock length that you have now. The reason is that your neck would not need to tilt as far forward to place your cheek on the comb, i.e. the stock may need to be shortened. http://stockfitting.virtualave.net

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Author: Stock Fitter's Bible (gun-fitting & shooting form instruction for shooters)


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 1:13 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:30 am
Posts: 1579
I ordered a Graco adjustable butt plate from Brownells and installed it myself on my wife's gun. If you're handy at all and have some tools available, it's not hard to do. Tools I used were an angle grinder to take off the bulk of the excess aluminum, and then files to finish it up and smooth it out nicely to match the lines of the stock.

I did have to cut about 3/4" off the stock. And I was fortunate that the stock was already hollowed out enough to accommodate the portion of the plate that threads in and out to adjust the length of pull.

If you're not comfortable though with the idea of cutting the stock yourself, or hollowing it out, then you'd perhaps be better off getting it done for you.

Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 3:18 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:17 pm
Posts: 114
Rollin Oswald wrote:
If your 391 is brusing your cheek and lowering an adjustable butt plate corrects it, you may be mounting your gun too low on your shouder. It should be even or close to even with the top of your shoulder depending on the shooting discipline with which you are involved.

Also check the height of the heel of the pad on your shoulder to see if it is near the level of the top of your shoulder. You may be able to easily raise the height of your gun mount and reduce the necessary forward tilt of your neck. This would change the contact point of your cheek on the comb, moving it to the rear as well as broaden the area that makes contact.



Also note that if you either raise your gun mount or have a stock adjuster installed, you won't need the stock length that you have now. The reason is that your neck would not need to tilt as far forward to place your cheek on the comb, i.e. the stock may need to be shortened. http://stockfitting.virtualave.net


Mr. Oswald:

I was hoping you might reply, as I have seen your comments here before and it is clear that you have a great deal of expertise.

Without the adjustable plate, when I mount the gun, I don't really have to bend my neck. BUT about 2/3 of the recoil pad is above my shoulder.

The plate I borrowed is set to drop the recoil pad, so that when I mount the gun, the full recoil pad is against my shoulder and the barrel rib is still aligned with my eyes (and my head and neck aren't bent).

When I tried this, the vertical movement (recoil) of the stock disappeared for the first time since I bought the gun. Now all the recoil is straight back into my shoulder.

So I'm assuming I have solved the major problem. (I'm sure that if I can find the time to travel to Todd Nelson's shop (or someone like him) they can tweak my stance and/or tweak the stock.)

DOES ALL THIS SOUND REASONABLE ?? Am I on the right track ??


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 4313
Location: Brillion, WI
Dawg23,

Please, "Rollin;" no formality allowed.

The simple answers to your questions are probably "yes" and "yes." However, this assumes that the pitch of the stock (often responsible for facial pain/cheek slap) is correct and that your stock's dimensions allow you to use a correct gun mount (in the shoulder pocket,) body posture, stance, etc.

The neck needn't be completely upright. When vertical, it can cause facial pain because recoil snaps the head forward and the cheek down on the stock like the cracking of a whip. When mounting, the head should only need to be nodded forward slightly to place the cheek on the comb.

_________________
Rollin

Author: Stock Fitter's Bible (gun-fitting & shooting form instruction for shooters)


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 11:56 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:31 am
Posts: 1455
Location: California
From your description it sounds like you had the scenario my teen aged son had--above the shoulder mount. I installed a Morgan #5 (flat) recoil pad on his Baikal to drop his recoil pad and the problem was solved. The Morgan is very cheap and very easy to self-install. Just screw it on, use a fine point Sharpie to trace the butt outline on the plate, remove the plate and use a file or bench grinder to remove the excess aluminum. The entire process took maybe 90 minutes and I was very fussy about wood to metal fit. The change in LOP was minimal since the factory pad was quie thick.He smashed his first 25/25 at trap a few weeks after the Morgan was installed. Past performance is no guarantee of future results :!:


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 12:09 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:17 pm
Posts: 114
Rollin:

Thanks.

Actually we did alter the pitch prior to adding the plate, and you have articulated very well the actual position of my neck - not really vertical, and not hunched over, but "nodded" forward slightly.

You suggested avoiding the Morgan plate, and recommend the Jones plate. Is the Graco plate significantly inferior to the Jones plate ?

I'm not trying to put you on the spot with this question. I ask because Graco offers custom installation. (I'm not set up to shape and grind the hardware, and am not comfortable giving this task to the local gunsmith shops.)

I'd prefer to send the stock to the manufacturer and have them do the "grind to fit" work. I can work from the present offsets on my "borrowed" plate and set up the new one when I get it from the manufacturer. But if you tell me the Jones plate is significantly better than the Graco, I'll go with the Jones and take my chances with letting one of the local gunsmiths do the installation.

Thanks again for taking the time to help.


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 10:38 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:43 pm
Posts: 974
Location: Irmo, SC
I went with a Graco on my gun. He offered me a jones, but the Graco allowed for LOP adjustment and seemed like a more durable product. Between the cutting, grinding, buffing and fitting to the stock, it was more than my less than skilled self could imagine doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 10:40 am 
Shotgun Expert
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User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:31 am
Posts: 482
I would have one of the Nelsons(Country Gentlemen) put one of their units on the gun. It is I believe 150 bucks installed which includes the hardware and a Kickeze pad. They make their own hardware for them and do a top notch job. I have their adjuster on my gun and I later added a 2nd plate to it so i could use a larger pad that is fit to an unground pad so swapping pads is a snap and requires no fitting. It also give more surface area on the sholder since the pad is full sized. Since mine is lowered alot and twisted some you never know that they don't align up.
Ryan


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 11:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 4313
Location: Brillion, WI
If you want the best stock adjuster, Todd Nelson's (Country Gentleman) Nelson Adjuster is the way to go.

No, I do not recommend a Jones over a Graco adjuster. As was mentioned, the Graco offers LOP adjustment while the primary advantages of the Jones is that it is thinner and less expensive.

As with any adjuster, you would probably be better off paying the money and having it factory/professionally installed. Both knowledge and experience are required for a good job and neither is present during the first installation.

The two trickest parts of an installation are matching the shape of the butt with the metal parts of the adjuster without damaging the finish on the wood and getting the right angle of the recoil pad as it extends beyond the end of the stock, again, without damaging the stock itself.

_________________
Rollin

Author: Stock Fitter's Bible (gun-fitting & shooting form instruction for shooters)


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 3:01 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:17 pm
Posts: 114
Rollin:

Shipped stock to Country Gentleman - thanks again for taking the time to lead me through this.

EG


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:32 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:26 am
Posts: 88
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
dawg23 wrote:

Without the adjustable plate, when I mount the gun, I don't really have to bend my neck. BUT about 2/3 of the recoil pad is above my shoulder.

The plate I borrowed is set to drop the recoil pad, so that when I mount the gun, the full recoil pad is against my shoulder and the barrel rib is still aligned with my eyes (and my head and neck aren't bent).

When I tried this, the vertical movement (recoil) of the stock disappeared for the first time since I bought the gun. Now all the recoil is straight back into my shoulder.

So I'm assuming I have solved the major problem. (I'm sure that if I can find the time to travel to Todd Nelson's shop (or someone like him) they can tweak my stance and/or tweak the stock.)

DOES ALL THIS SOUND REASONABLE ?? Am I on the right track ??


I have a neck like a giraffe and have the same problem you do, when I mount my gun so it is where it should be in relation to my face, most of the butt plate is above my shoulder. This raises the axis of the barrel and creates a pivot point below that, so the gun recoils up instead of straight back into your shoulder. My cheek is still a pleasant yellow hue from Tuesday's match.

I shoot a 391 parallel target and had a gunsmith cut an adjustable comb into the stock. I am currently making a new comb to make it higher and then am going to get a Moneymaker barrel with a high rib. This will lower the gun but bring the comb and rib up to where I need it.


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 Post subject: Re: Adjustable Butt Plate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:20 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:13 pm
Posts: 1
Old Vet wrote:
I ordered a Graco adjustable butt plate from Brownells and installed it myself on my wife's gun. If you're handy at all and have some tools available, it's not hard to do. Tools I used were an angle grinder to take off the bulk of the excess aluminum, and then files to finish it up and smooth it out nicely to match the lines of the stock.

I did have to cut about 3/4" off the stock. And I was fortunate that the stock was already hollowed out enough to accommodate the portion of the plate that threads in and out to adjust the length of pull.

If you're not comfortable though with the idea of cutting the stock yourself, or hollowing it out, then you'd perhaps be better off getting it done for you.

Good luck.



yeah i much prefer to use the adjustable butt plate, thanks anyway for further explanation

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