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 Post subject: Chondels
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:23 pm
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Location: Sauk Rapids, Mn
Any tips on breaking chondels?




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 Post subject: Re: Chondels
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:11 pm 
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Location: Panhandle
Most of the time, people don't give them the respect they deserve :wink: the target is always in transition and takes more lead than you think, you see (usually) the full face of the target making it appear slower than it is.

If I can, I like to take them as a sideways teal----or get them before they hit the apex, hold a fairly high gun, let the target come to the barrel and push away on its flightpath----but realize that path is an arc.

If because of a true pair I can't get to it there, I let it arc and fall----the path coming down is usually more determined than anywhere else. Just takes a little practice.

A flying/Chondell rabbit at 50 yards is a different deal, use 7 1/2's and all the choke you can afford :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Chondels
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:51 pm 
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chan·delle n.
A sudden, steep climbing turn of an aircraft, executed to alter flight direction and gain altitude simultaneously.


I once asked Larry Corbett why he waited so long before he shot at a chandelle, and his answer was "I want to see which direction it is going before I shoot at it."

What he meant was the direction or flight path of a chandelle is constantly changing, expecially when it is near the top of its arc. That makes it very hard to hit anywhere near the top. If you can wait and take it coming down, the path is closer to being straight, although still curved some. Of course, if you can see it going up and you know how to shoot a rising target, that works too, as TexasTon said.

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 Post subject: Re: Chondels
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:36 pm 
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Location: Southwest Georgia, USA
I believe a lot of shooters think the chondelle is closer than it actually is. When it is thrown as a crosser, it looks to be very close as you are seeing so much surface. Take a good look at the distance it really is from you and push that lead on out there.


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 Post subject: Re: Chondels
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:50 pm 
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Location: Manhattan Kansas
I used to shake in my boots when I saw a chandelle. I hated them and it was messing with my head when I knew one was coming.

I can tell you novel ways not to break them.

I finally learned to shoot them after watching Bobby Fowler give a lesson to two shooters from Austin. I went home to Kansas with a page of notes and went to Cokeley Farms and worked on what Fowler told his clients to do.

Fowler drew a box and put the target in one corner and the barrel in a corner that was diagonally across the box. the shot has to be delivered at about a 45 degree angle from the target.
It is best to use maintained lead to get to that angle in front of the target. This works going up, at the top or falling. I like taking them at the top or falling.

Two years ago at the Kansas State Shoot Brent Fleming Brian Tanner and Sam Lancaster had 16 rabbit in the air chandelles in the 200 target main event and I did not miss one of them. I missed alot of other targets but no chandelles.

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 Post subject: Re: Chondels
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:43 pm
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Location: Irmo, SC
Like Mr. Ben, I like to take them as they begin their decent. Their line is very difficult for me until it tops out and begins to fall. I generally don't insert on the bird until it tops out, but then once it begins to drop, I insert on the front edge and slowly open up the gap until it feels right. I suggest you plan a day to shoot only chondels. I still do it. My routine is to face it directly and once I get comfortable with my breaks, I walk back. Once I get back to 50 or 60 yards, I start moving left and right. The hardest angle for me is when you walk in the direction where the target is getting away. I spend the most time on that angle. I've shot in upwards of a flat of shells on this target because it seems most bigger tournaments throw a few of these.


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 Post subject: Re: Chondels
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:25 am 
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I was out shooting 5 stand last weekend and they had a chondelle setup at about 45yds. I missed that @#$# thing every single time! After one round I had them pull it for me a couple times and I still couldn't hit it. This was the first time that I have really had a hard time with one. As far as I am concerned, it is just sadistic to throw a chondelle at distances over 40yds.


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 Post subject: Re: Chondels
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:48 am 
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JasonJames:
If you can get permission from the course manager and the ground is not crowded, the best thing that you could have done was get closer to the target and break it and then step back and try it again until you have it and then back away some more until you can hit it.

To me this is sort of like teaching a dog to take a long line. You get comfortable and back up and increase the lead.

There are other consierations on chandelles that have not been mentioned. If it is a rabbit in the air and not a standard target, it takes more shot to break it and it is best to use 7.5 shot. the tough thing about chandelles is that they are always changing speed and direction. I find it easier to take them just after the arc at the top or falling.

I hope that this helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Chondels
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:22 pm 
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Chondelles can be rabbits , standards, midis and battues.BUT we usually think of them as flying rabbits.

they are moving :shock: but showing so much face as to seem not so fast.They fake us out and we shoot behind.


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 Post subject: Re: Chondels
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:54 am 
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sera russell wrote:
Chondelles can be rabbits , standards, midis and battues.BUT we usually think of them as flying rabbits.


Good point. A chandelle is defined by its flight path, not by the type of target. The type of target can make a big difference in how you should shoot it.

If it is a battue, use a relatively open choke and #9 shot (maybe #8 at extreme range) because battues are very easy to break. You can often identify battues by the way they curl, but not always. There was a chandelle over the pond on Red at the Great American this weekend, and I couldn't tell what kind of target it was, although I thought I saw a little bit of curl. I asked the trapper, and he confirmed it was a battue.

If it is a rabbit, use tighter choke and larger shot, because rabbit targets are the hardest of all to break.

Standard targets that show the top are harder to break than standards that show the bottom. Sometimes in a borderline case that make make the difference in choosing a choke and/or shot size.

Battues, rabbits, and sometimes standards that are showing full face often look closer and slower than they are, because they look big. That can make you use too little lead and miss behind.

Battues and rabbits don't slow down like domed targets do - they actually pick up speed as they fall.

Midi's usually look farther away and faster than they really are, because they are so small. That can make you use too much lead and miss in front. There was a long R-L dropping target on station 15 Red in the Great American this past weekend. I missed the first one and then cut back on lead and broke the other 2. Later I talked to George Hopkins who set the targets, and he said most people were missing that target in front because it was not as far away as it looked. I didn't think to ask him if it was a midi, but I'd bet it was.

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 Post subject: Re: Chondels
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:57 pm 
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I just went and shot some of those flying rabbits Saturday, we set em in a nice flattened C shape arc,what i learned is the lead changes rapidly with distance,the lead change from 30yds to 40yds is quite substantial.And taking Steve Nelsons advice, shot them at different points along the arc, one thing i learned is that when the thing is falling,unless it's thrown in a really high C arc, it's really easy to lead to far underneath them,it almost appears in the latter stages of their flight that they're dropping at a 45 degree angle, when in reality, they're really traveling crossways a lot faster than they are dropping,i shot one that looked like it was going down at a 30-40 degree angle, but i still lead it about 6-7 feet in frot and only about 1 to 1.5 feet low to break it,that was a surprise, i initially thought it would take more underneath, but they are usually always traveling laterally a lot faster than vertically.

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 Post subject: Re: Chondels
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:17 pm
Posts: 114
astomb wrote:
Fowler drew a box and put the target in one corner and the barrel in a corner that was diagonally across the box. the shot has to be delivered at about a 45 degree angle from the target.
.


Can you be a bit more specific ?

Sounds interesting, but I'm not able to follow your description very well. :?


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 Post subject: Re: Chondels
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:27 pm 
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chondelles , taken while they are falling,require in front and below lead.

Think of it as a clock face.Example: 2 ft(lead) at 8 o'clock.


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 Post subject: Re: Chondelles
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:41 pm 
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Dawg23

Explain, sure - s'easy. 8)

Imagine a square box 2 feet each side. If the chondelle is going right to left, then when the clay enters the top RH corner, shoot at the bottom LH corner the lead may need to be more than 2 feet but then the box just grows to 3 feet or 4 feet as needed.

Hope this helps?

Roger



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