CalendarCalendar   Photos  * FAQ
It is currently Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:22 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Adjusting Remington Model 11
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:30 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:23 am
Posts: 3296
Location: Vermont
I am wondering if someone can describe or point me to a diagram of the different configurations of the friction ring/spring/piece parts on the magazine tube of a Remington Model 11 shotgun...

It is my understanding that the different configurations adjust the recoil operation to allow for lighter and heavier loads...

I guess I also need to know what configurations correlate to what appx load ranges...

Thanks in advance for any and all info...

_________________
THIS SPACE FOR RENT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Remington Model 11
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:09 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 8:27 pm
Posts: 744
This is tough to explain without a picture but I will give it a try. The friction ring is the beveled steel part. It is the only one that you change with light or heavy load. The idea is that a heavy load requires maximum braking against the magazine tube to scrub off a lot of the recoil. With a light load you want to scrub off less of the recoil force in order to have enough left to operate the mechanism. For a heavy load the friction ring is in place on the muzzle end of the magazine tube with the thick rim bearing against the recoil spring. If the gun won't cycle with this arrangement because your ammo is too light simply remove the friction ring.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Remington Model 11
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:52 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 8:27 pm
Posts: 744
After examining some of my guns, I realize I didn't cover all the bases. There are two types of friction rings. The older ones (pre WWII, I believe) have an inside bevel on one end and the thick rim on the other. The newer ones have the same inside bevel but an outside bevel on what was the thick rim side. The outside bevel goes next to the recoil spring just like the thick rim side on the older ones. The two other split friction pieces ( bronze piece with it's steel collar) go on after the solid ring steel friction ring.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Remington Model 11
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:28 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:23 am
Posts: 3296
Location: Vermont
I do follow you, and I am just trying to understand...See the link below for parts explosion...

http://www.okiegunsmithshop.com/Remington_Model_11.jpg

However...My particular Model 11 was (according to matching serial #'s) manufactured in 1921...The inside edge of the loop off the barrel (that rides over the magazine tube and touches the Friction Piece/Friction Spring assembly) is beveled...This bevel runs over the (top) edge of the phosphorus bronze Friction Piece [#82] (that has the spring steel Friction Spring [#83] wrapped around it)...Upon recoil, this applies a constriction to the Friction Piece/Friction Spring assembly [#82 & #83 Assempled]...This was one configuration...I want to know the appx. shot charge and dram equivalent for this configuration...

With the addition of the Friction Ring [#80] beneath the the Friction Piece/Friction Spring assembly, above the Recoil Spring, the recoil technical specs were changed...This was another of the configurations I am pretty sure of (but have no clue what they relate to in charges)...In addition to the raw parts changes, there were varying degrees of lubrication applied to the Magazine Tube that would allow for fine tuning of the felt recoil and longevity of parts in relation to the varying loads fired...

I guess what I am really asking is, does anyone have the original Hang-Tags, or the Owners Manual that can relay the info to me...Are there any configurations other than the two that I listed that I do not know about?...

I understand the concept and the parts...I think ;-)

But I have been known to be wrong...

_________________
THIS SPACE FOR RENT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Remington Model 11
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:44 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 8:27 pm
Posts: 744
I have hang tags and instruction. Remington will send you instructions free. Check their website. My info says the max load is 3 1/4 drams bulk smokeless powder. There is a third least friction configuration that has the split rings on the receiver end of the magazine tube and the friction ring on the muzzle end reversed from the regular position ( thick end/outside bevel end forward). This setup is for guns with a cutts compensator. They do mention putting a small amount of mineral oil on the tube. I would do that only if you can't get the gun to cycle. The instructions say that if the gun fails to cycle at the highest friction settin go the the next lower setting.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Remington Model 11
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:42 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:23 am
Posts: 3296
Location: Vermont
THanks for all the help!

Nice site...

_________________
THIS SPACE FOR RENT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Remington Model 11
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:01 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 9:35 am
Posts: 1506
"The heart of the Browning long-recoil system is the friction ring assembly. With enough friction, the action works without beating itself up. Too much friction causes malfunctions, and too little leads to excessive felt recoil, a cracked forearm and broken internal parts"

For Browning, Rem 11 and Savage 720. "The standard shell guns will have two friction rings, one of which is a two part assembly. The steel ring is beveled in the inner edge like the beveled gas ring of an 1100, but is solid, and without a gap in it. The bronze ring is segmented on its indside face, and has a spring steel clip-ring around it. The bronze ring and its steel clip-ring each have a gap."

"On the standard guns, there are three settings that all the literature mention, heavy, light and lightest. By far the largest number of guns are left in the heavy configuration, and work well that way. The heavy configuration is with the recoil spring on the magazine tube, then the steel bevel ring over the spring with the bevel towards the muzzle. The bronze friction ring with its steel clip-ring goes on next and then the barrel hanger. Once the forearm goes on, the bronze friction ring is sandwiched in between the bevel of the rear ring and the bevel machined into the rear face of the barrel hanger.

"Upon recoil, the two bevels act to squeeze the friction ring against the magazine tube. The heavier the recoil, the greater the friction."

"The other two settings for the standard guns are light and lightest. However, I have never had to use them. The light setting simply takes the steel bevel ring and moves it from between the recoil spring and the bronze ring to between the rear of the spring and the receiver. Obviously, back there it does nothing to influence the amount of friction. It rests there simply to keep it out of the way without losing it. I have never used it because every gun I have fired worked fine in the heavy setting, even with 3 dram target loads. However, if your gun does not cycle with the light target loads and the friction rings set in the heavy configuration, change the rings. While I always had good luck with my various A5s and clones (a total of nine guns I owned, and several hundred customer guns) yours may be different. And, I test fired them all with a 3 dram equivalent handload. You may be using a target load that is even lighter."

"The lightest setting for the Browning A5 (Rem 11) is meant for shotguns with a Cutts Compensator installed. The Cutts is an external choke combined with a recoil reducing cage. In the Cutts setting you remove the bronze ring entirely, and leave the steel ring in back of the recoil spring. (Why not sotre the bronze ring back there too? The bronze ring wold prevent the barrel from recoiling all the way back in its proper stroke.) The extra weight of the Cutts unit i only part of the reason you have to decrease friction. When the wad and shot leave the muzzle inside the cage, their recoil generating work is done. When the wad and shot strike the choke, they jerk the barrel forward. On any other shotgun the forward force would be imparted to the whole gun, dampening felt recoil. On the A5 the force is imparted to the barrel, decreasing its ability to cycle the action."

He recommends to set it to the heaviest configuration that will work to avoid cracking the forearm and other damage.

From Gunsmithing: Shotguns, by Pat Sweeney. If you have a Rem 11 or Browning A5 or Savage 720 you should own this book.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Remington Model 11
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2003 7:21 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:23 am
Posts: 3296
Location: Vermont
Once Again,

Many Thanks!

That is exactly what I needed to know...

I inherited this M11 from my Great Aunt back in the late 70's...I have only fired it a few times and then only with low-brass #8 field loads on grouse...Cycling was flawless...As I was looking at all my shotguns thinking about the upcoming 'gun' season for deer, I was contemplating carrying the M11 with a full load of 2 3/4 inch 00-Buck when walking in our thick northern timber...Upon disassembly I noticed the variable configurations (the 'rear ring' was back against the reciever)...Till then I had no idea that the action was adjustable...As this is a 'family piece' I did not want to use it with heavy loads till I was sure I was not going to harm it...

I have already 'set' the friction system as per your description to the greatest friction...I will try it this week with some heavy #2 lead and then I will see if the low-brass #8's will still cycle...

Thanks Again!

_________________
THIS SPACE FOR RENT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Remington Model 11
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:15 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:33 pm
Posts: 202
Location: So. Illinios, W. Kentucky, SoWeGa
Thought I would bring this post up from the graveyard


These guns, A5/M11/720...if you set them to the lightest and then fire heavy rounds will you damage the gun? Will you create a double recoil for your shoulder? IF it didn't damage the gun I can't see why you don't set it at the lightest...and forget about it.

_________________
~Think Less...Shoot More~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Remington Model 11
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:52 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:14 pm
Posts: 506
Location: Fl.
Triggerhappy, yes, you can damage a machinist's fine work of art with wrong setting for heavy loads. Altho american made Brownings and model elevens have a buffer in rear of receiver that helps somewhat. RemingtonII gave very good infomation on A-5's amd elevens, until you can speak A-5 and eleven language, maybe you should shoot something else. Just kidding at ya, everyone should own more than one of these.

_________________
Do what is best, no matter the opposition.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Adjusting Remington Model 11
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:55 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:33 pm
Posts: 202
Location: So. Illinios, W. Kentucky, SoWeGa
Grizer, since making that last post I've purchased and done alot of reading on A5 and the like. I've learned alot, including the error my statement (I will, in my defense, note that I had suspicions of gun damage :wink: ) and hope that I'll pick the language up at a statisfactory rate. Thank you very much for you PM, it was most helpful :)

_________________
~Think Less...Shoot More~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Adjusting Remington Model 11
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:15 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:36 am
Posts: 2
i got a early model 11 1908 as a gift . i took it to a gunsmith he found two broken parts the bolt and the link. it was from to heavy a load. it took a month of serching to find the bolt. he charged me 50.00 in labor to clean and assemble. the parts were 50.00 bucks. he set it up for light loads and told me not to set it up for heavy loads as it would just beat the old gun up. it fires like a dream. i am up in va. now and plan on having some rabbit for christmas.good luck to all mod 11 owners. it is truely a work of art. dave :D


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: beno, Bing [Bot], blkpowderuser, buddha1950, Bullet Launcher, burtona, chemprof, chubbyjesus, chuckler, dirty girdy, Ducky's Dad, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, gthudspeth, Hchang, hd7054, Hovannes, Humpty Dumpty, Ithaca33, JED1, jer901, jharrington, jwright37043, liljake82, lost_pair, Lubenator, maggs01, May, Northstream, oregunner, quacker, RMc, Savannah, Sikiguya, Snead, SoCalDep, struff55, tdxm, The Sequel, thefenux, vinnyd, vmcinnes, wshumard


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group     -  DMCA Notice