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 Post subject: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:25 am
Posts: 276
Anybody else having major problems with broken firing pins in their Khan Arthemis 12 ga. over/unders? I have about 2000 rounds through the gun and have broken 3 firing pins already. Twice the bottom and most recently the top.

Its still under warranty but I am tired of sending it back to be repaired. I pulled the stock off and shook the gun until the pin and the spring fell out. It looks easy to repair. What is the best alloy for firing pins? Where can I get better firing pins for the Khan? Anybody have a domestic source they can recommend?

Thanks in advance for the help guys!




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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 494
Where do you ship the gun for repairs? What is the shipping cost?


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:01 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:31 am
Posts: 1455
Location: California
At the moment I don't think there is an importer for Khan. I believe that Century has dropped them. I, too, wonder where you would send a Khan for repair.


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:57 am
Posts: 474
Location: Wy, Md, NC
The best firing pins are made out of titanium, but I doubt that anyone makes them for cheap guns. It seems like most of the Turkish guns have firing pin problems. All of the Huglus do for sure. Maybe they all get the pins from the same sub-contractor. 6 out of 7 guns I know of have had broken pins within 4-5 months. My CZ lasted 150 rounds. Doesn't exactly give you a lot of confidence. My buddy's DeHann lasted about 700 rounds. Pins are definately the weak link (very weak) in Turkish guns.


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:05 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:25 am
Posts: 276
I send the gun to Century International. It costs about $15 to send the gun for repair. Its more the hassle plus everytime I get it back there are new gouges in the wood. They are not at all careful. I realize its only a low end o/u but a little more care would be nice.

The turnaround is pretty quick but if I had the pins I could do it in less than an hour.

The local Gander Mountain also sells this gun and they have a gunsmith on-site that can do the repairs. I think I will call him today to see where he gets the pins. The last time I talked to him he was alot more expensive to do the work than if I just sent the gun back in for repair. I think having the firing pins in my possession is the way to go.

I did find a guy on the internet that said he had them but he never returned my Email. His post was from last March (2005), so who knows if he even has the same address now.

Anybody out there having the same issue with the Khan firing pins?


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:11 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:25 am
Posts: 276
hardnose wrote:
The best firing pins are made out of titanium, but I doubt that anyone makes them for cheap guns. It seems like most of the Turkish guns have firing pin problems. All of the Huglus do for sure. Maybe they all get the pins from the same sub-contractor. 6 out of 7 guns I know of have had broken pins within 4-5 months. My CZ lasted 150 rounds. Doesn't exactly give you a lot of confidence. My buddy's DeHann lasted about 700 rounds. Pins are definately the weak link (very weak) in Turkish guns.


This is odd. Why would the Turkish gun manufacturers let such an inexpensive item bring down a decent gun. Its very frustrating. You would think they would do adequate testing and this problem would stick out like a sore thumb.

How expensive could it be to simply provide titanium firing pins in the first place?

Anyone know who makes titanium firing pins??


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:57 am
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Location: Wy, Md, NC
Whatever the reason, the problem is clear (maybe). Maybe they will "properly" address it in the future. Maybe it isn't the material, but a design problem. Will pins break if the hammer doesn't strike them squarely? I don't know. If the problem is merely the pins, I would think they would replace all the pins in existing guns with a better product. Right now they replace the broken pins with the same ones that break in the first place. When I called CZ, they would not committ to what the exact problem was, but acknowledged that there is one.


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:21 pm
Posts: 1871
You....Get....What....You....Pay....For....

Sorry guys, someone had to say it. Now you all know part of the reason why $300 double guns are rarely a good deal.


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:34 am
Posts: 2195
Location: North Central, Washington
I wanted to say it also Dead a Pair. People should avoid these guns as they are very poor quality and will not last.


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:15 pm 
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Location: Wy, Md, NC
You do get what you pay for and I'm sure both of you guys have hands on knowledge with these guns and that makes your statements true. Or maybe not, since the 410 and 28ga CZ are $1,000 guns. I think these guns are today, what Spanish guns were 30 years ago. They are one of two things, cosmetically acceptable $300 guns selling for a grand - or $1,000 guns with some quality control issues. That happens anywhere. Call Krieghoff International and ask them about the new $15,000 K80 they sold a guy in NJ with no hammers in it. What did Ollie say?


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:53 pm
Posts: 47
I don't own a Khan shotgun and I have never made a firing pin, but I am interested in what it takes to make one and I have a small home machine shop. It would take a bit more time to search for some specific info on making firing pins, but I notice that there are a number of posts on rec.crafts.metalworking on this subject. I see a variety of choices of material for firing pins. Some posters used plain ole W-1 water hardening drill rod which is pretty basic high carbon steel while others used oil hardening O-1. Some references to firing pins suggest that 4140 must be a common choice. I would also suggest the use of A6 steel which is used for punches might be a good choice. Another issue is heat treating them once made. One person on RCM who had made fiing pins said that you should not heat treat them. It just makes them more brittle and likely to break. Others say that you heat treat them. I think I would favor no heat treating and then if that doesn't work so well go for heat treating.

Can you post a photo of one of your firing pins? Depending on how complicated it is, I would consider making one for you. I own a couple of inexpensive shotguns which I may have to make firing pins for one day.


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:28 pm 
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hardnose wrote:
You do get what you pay for and I'm sure both of you guys have hands on knowledge with these guns and that makes your statements true. Or maybe not, since the 410 and 28ga CZ are $1,000 guns. I think these guns are today, what Spanish guns were 30 years ago. They are one of two things, cosmetically acceptable $300 guns selling for a grand - or $1,000 guns with some quality control issues. That happens anywhere. Call Krieghoff International and ask them about the new $15,000 K80 they sold a guy in NJ with no hammers in it. What did Ollie say?

I don't have a Turkish gun. I have nothing against Turkey. IMO, Huglu is capable of making very fine guns. It's just that some importers demand rock bottom prices, so Huglu can only deliver them with rock bottom quality. The DeHann Huglus are damned fine guns, and I would be proud to own one. But other Turkish makers are either not as good, or their US importers demand only bottom-feeder grades.

I do have some experience with Spanish guns. I love my Ugartechea Model 30, and my only mistake was ordering a 12 gauge instead of a 16. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:25 am
Posts: 276
deadapair wrote:
You....Get....What....You....Pay....For....

Sorry guys, someone had to say it. Now you all know part of the reason why $300 double guns are rarely a good deal.


I received the gun as a gift. My first shotgun actually. I'm just now learning these things. I had the stock off and was pulling the trigger so I could watch the mechanics of the gun and try to understand why the heck the triggers are so heavy. I had snap caps in to take the stress off the firing pins. At some point while doing this, I noticed one of the firing pins broke off. So I fished it and the spring out. The other two times the firing pins broke was during a round of skeet.

I will say that the pins are both at an odd angle. They are not straight on as I would have thought. This may have something to do with the pins being stressed. The springs are not very heavy duty either. Might have something to do with it. Not sure. I don't know what to compare to yet. This is all part of the learning experience I guess!!

I will tell you this much. I noticed where I shoot that there was always one or two Remington 1100's in the rack every time I went. A couple of the best shooters shoot them. They said go ahead and shoot it. You might like it. You sure as heck can't hurt it. Its got about 100,000 rounds through it. So I shot it, I liked it, I bought a used one.

Remington 1100, $295 with chokes. Sometimes you get a heck of a lot more than what you paid for! I'm learning quick!


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:14 pm 
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havnfun wrote:
Remington 1100, $295 with chokes. Sometimes you get a heck of a lot more than what you paid for!

Indeed you do! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:24 pm 
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philte,

My brother has made 3-4 firing pins for different guns that he has, mostly SxS's. He made his last one from a grade 8 bolt, kinda tough to turn on a lathe but he didn't have to heat treat it. He just took the demensions off the old firing pin an made it like that one. Works great.

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Skeet aren't hard to hit, just easy to miss....!!


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:41 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:04 am
Posts: 50
Location: Haslet, TX
FYI. The Mossberg International O/U is the old Kahn brand.


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:40 pm
Posts: 44
Here on the left coast, er...West Coast, Big 5 Sporting Goods sold many of these Ghinges Khans and many went back for returns and or repairs. The internal parts used are too soft and not heat treated according to gunsmiths....thus the weak point on them. Depending on how long you have owned it, you might try a return or exchange with the store manager. Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:00 am 
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Location: Minnesota
Hi,

philte, O-1 or W-1, or even 4140 would be fine for a firing pin. Depends on what you like. I personally don't like W-1 for it's machability.

I would heat treat a firing pin, but I would also draw it back to 35-40Rc, (preferably to the lower side).

Havnfun, Most doubleguns have there firingpins at a slight angle to the reciever face. This is normal. The angle of the hammer face in relation to the firing pin is probably more important. And weather or not the pin itself has been properly hardened and tempered is supremely important. I would suspect that they are making their pins too hard and not drawing them back enough. If they were too soft, they would mushroom and stick.

As far as the springs, if the gun goes bang, (assuming a working firing pin :lol: ), them the springs are fine. You don't want one that is too stiff as it may cause a pirced primer, and definetly a harder to open gun.

dalee

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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:20 am
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[I do have some experience with Spanish guns. I love my Ugartechea Model 30, and my only mistake was ordering a 12 gauge instead of a 16. :wink:[/quote]

Dead: I just have to ask. What draws you to a 16ga? Most guns built on a 12ga frame. Shells more costly to purchase. Harder to find, limited selection. I now you reload your own. but what about other draw backs mentioned?


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 Post subject: Re: khan O/U Firing Pins
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 494
Customstocks: You have one or more of these being used at trap. Any issues as mentioned here? If so what did you do to remedy?




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