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 Post subject: Janssen Sons SxS 12 ga - Date of Manufacture?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:39 pm 
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Hello: I am working on restoration of an old family gun that is in pretty rough condition but I plug away. I know it goes back to my grandfather but prior to that I do not know. It would most likely have been purchased used in first half of 20th century as he passed away before I was born in '48. I am curious as to it's true age. It is a pretty cheap looking old piece so the only value is sentimental I'm sure. It has external hammers.

A serial number appears on both the action body and the underside of the barrel rib toward the muzzle end. There are also a variety of other numbers and proof marks on the barrels, which I could photograph if more info is needed.

The serial number is 9666

Thanks for any info. Jack




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 Post subject: Re: Janssen Sons SxS 12 ga - Date of Manufacture?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:54 pm 
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I doubt that anyone will be able to tell you the year of Mfg. It was most likely made between 1890 and 1910,, A lot of European guns are dated,but I'm sure that your's is too early for that. The proofs may narrow it down.. Bushrod


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 Post subject: Re: Janssen Sons SxS 12 ga - Date of Manufacture?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:16 pm 
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I cannot help much but my resources list a Janssen & Janssen as a Belgium gunmaking firm. No other information.

There is one place that lists Janssen firearms. Try LaMaison Du Chasser at expertise@lamasionduchasser.com

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 Post subject: Re: Janssen Sons SxS 12 ga - Date of Manufacture?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:01 pm 
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thanks A5Guy. I sent them an email. We'll see. Regards, Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Janssen Sons SxS 12 ga - Date of Manufacture?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:40 pm 
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Image
Image

Bushrod: here are two images of proof marks on the barrels if this helps. They are posted in Shotgun Pictures in the SGW Photo Gallery. Not sure if you can view at full size in this thread. Thanks, Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Janssen Sons SxS 12 ga - Date of Manufacture?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:10 am 
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Jack, The proof mark of the crowned oval with the letters ELG and a star was used after 1891 . The diamond with 12 over C shows that the barrel was a choked 12 bore(also a post 1891 mark). These are,of course, all Belgium proof marks.

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 Post subject: Re: Janssen Sons SxS 12 ga - Date of Manufacture?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:23 am 
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Thanks again. The piece appears older than I thought it was. Hopefully, I can do it justice in restoration. I found it interesting how rough the metal work is where it can't be seen - even the inside face of the hammers did not get the same attention as the outside face. I guess time is money - even 100 years ago. Regards, Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Janssen Sons SxS 12 ga - Date of Manufacture?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:11 am 
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Jack,
The 12/c in the diamond was used no later than June 1924.
Many guns were made "down to a price", meaning materials may have been the same as with more expensive guns, just less effort was put in concerning finish. I've run across a couple of these myself and figure that if I've got the time, I can make it a better gun. Others were made with cheap materials as well and there is nothing one can do for them. Based on the limited experience I've had in handling a couple of Janssen guns, your's may well be the former.
Good Luck,
Jim

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 Post subject: Re: Janssen Sons SxS 12 ga - Date of Manufacture?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:15 pm 
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Thanks now to Jim. So far we have this gun dated no earlier than 1891 and no later than June1924. Beyond proof marks here are all the alpha/numeric stamped impressions on this gun

The number 18 appears on these parts:

Forestock hinge
Action Lever
Hammers Right and Left inside face
Hammer Spring Cover Left only
Trigger Guard
Action

The number 1 appears

underneath and at 90 degrees to the number 18 on the Hammer Spring Cover (Left)

The number 13 appears on the Action Butt Stock Tang

The number 516 appears on:

Action Butt Stock Face
Trigger Guard Tang

The letters AF appear on both hammer spring cover plates

The letters GT appear with the AF on the right hammer spring cover plate

The finished face of both hammer spring cover plates bear the manufacturer's name Janssen Sons & Co. I believe this identifies this Beligian gun to have been made specifically for the North American market. From what I have gathered, Janssen Fils & Cie was used for the European market.

The base of the action upon which the barrel chambers rest when in the closed position contain several alpha/numeric characters, as follows:

SC
18
BG
9666
a star on top of the letter F on top of an arrow pointing down

The barrels, besides the proof marks in the photos, have the following alpha/numeric characters

Underside near muzzle end

9666 (since this number is also on the action, I believe it is the serial number for the gun)

Underside near chamber end

12
PJ
B0 [or maybe BG as on the action base]
SC
C12 (which I now understand means choked 12 bore)
18.2
18 with right pointing arrow
4589 (although this could be a serial number it only appears on the barrel and not the action. Any thoughts on serial numbers??)

Top side Rib states Laminated Steel

The "doll's head" that locks the barrels into the action has a flower petal design engraved on it

There are no characters stamped into the forestock wood

There may be the letters JJ on the end grain of the butt stock wood under the butt plate but they are faint and could be some other characters

And that's all I can offer to the ID enthusiasts on site.

Thanks to all and a Happy New Year to you.

Regards, Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Janssen Sons SxS 12 ga - Date of Manufacture?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:26 am 
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Found some Janssen history through Google. It has been automatically translated and it is very literal so the English often makes little or no sense. For those who read French, there is a link on the page back to the original. The pictures of the external hammer model are very similar to mine except the hammers are somewhat more "delicate" than on mine. The overall condition of the one shown is far superior to what I have to work with. Thought this might be of interest to the ID group. Regards, Jack

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... D%26sa%3DG




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