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 Post subject: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:15 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:53 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Marshall, TX
Anyone tried this loading yet and put it to the patterning board?



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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:00 am
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HuntNshoot wrote:
Anyone tried this loading yet and put it to the patterning board?


HuntNshoot,

As no one has responded to you I thought I would. I did have a box of these new loads in my hand a few days back; setting them back on the shelf when I saw velocity was only 1100fps.
I'm not a HV fan, but like 1200fps for hunting....
I shot many 3" .410's as a kid with 3/4oz loads. Paper shells and bare shot. I learned why the 3" load has such a bad rep for patchy patterns!
Recently I had the best 3" .410 patterns I ever looked at however. I was trying some 3" reloads with 7/10oz of #6 shot. Patterns were so - so.... On a whim I tried some hard 7's and shot some of the best patterns I have witnessed with the 3" .410! The pellet distribution was as evenly distributed as a big gun! I shot a dozen patterns without a "patchy" one in the bunch.
Short shot cups make the 3" hard to get results with, but that said I've found out the little bore is very sensitive to shot size choice; gun to gun even.........
The ammo factories even load the little 2 1/2" .410 shell with 1/2oz of #4's..... That's only 67 pellets!!! Yet I've seen a couple of .410's that pattern this load like a dream! Good enough to keep the fox out of the henhouse that's for sure!

Slidehammer


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:57 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:53 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Marshall, TX
Slide, Many thanks for the reply. My concerns are the same as yours with regard to velocity. The Winchester site listed the velocity as 1105fps and that worried me. Since I hunt mostly rabbits and squirrels with the 410, I'm more concerned with center density than an even spread. I love to hunt with the light guns and prefer the challenge of closer shots (not to mention that skinning more than four squirrels in a morning is a bit of a chore, lol). I've been toying with the idea of getting a MEC 600Jr for the 410. I've seen some 5/8oz loads in the 3" that claim to hold all the shot within the cup. I'd like to see them on the patterning board. My experience is similar to yours with shot size. I have a Wingmaster (25" Mod) and a Browning 42 (26" Full) and neither will pattern the 3" #6 worth a flip. I have an old Savage 22/410 (24" Full) that's a real killer with the 3" #6--if only my two pumps would shoot like that gun! I did find they both liked 7 1/2's in the three inch shell, but are even better with the 2 1/2 inch, in both 6 and 7 1/2. When I shoot something, I like for it to be dead when it hits the ground. All of my shots on cat squirrels are less than 25yards. Even then, I do not always get clean kills.

I suppose it's as good an excuse as any to buy another press. I've read that the PW 375 is THE press for the 410, but I'd rather buy another gun for what they're asking for the PW. Reloading will be the only way I can try the 5/8oz load with #7 shot, which may be what I'm looking for. Thanks again for sharing your experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:00 pm 
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Location: Essex, Ontario, Canada
Whats the data for the 5/8oz 3" load and where did you get it? I used to load some 5/8oz 3" loads and they shot excellent with #6 out of my .410. Actually they were my all time favorite hunting load. They were with Remington hulls and velocity I think was around 1220fps. I'm out of Remington hulls now and only have Winchester 3" but still wouldnt mind loading some 5/8oz for hunting. The gun I shot them out of was a Savage model 24 .22lr/.410. The last couple seasons though I've been really likeing my 2 1/2" 1/2oz #6 loads at 1250fps since I could never get any 11/16oz loads to pattern.

Tim

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:55 pm 
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Tim;

I think Ballistic Products has data for those.

BP

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:53 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Marshall, TX
Tim, I saw the loads in the BP manual. 1220 sounds great, but the BP loads don't quite get there. Here they are:
3" Federal, Fed209A/17grsW296/Stretch wad/9200psi/1200fps
3" Fiocchi, Fed209A/16.8W296/Stretch/8830psi/1200fps
3" Rem SP, Fed209A/16W296/Stretch/9200psi/1200fps
Well, it looks like there is one that goes faster.
3" Rem SP/Fed209A/16.2grs2400/Stump/11,000psi/1230fps

The thing with the last load is the wad. The BP "Stump" wad has almost no shotcup, so that probably wouldn't fit our needs. Keep in mind I have never seen or used any of these wads. I'm just reading it out of the manual.

For the same price of a case of the Winchester factory 3/4oz loads I can buy a Mec600Jr. That may be my best move. Good hunting and good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:53 pm
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Location: Marshall, TX
Dang BP, you're quick on that keyboard!

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:22 pm 
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Location: Essex, Ontario, Canada
That 1230fps load looks to be around the load I was using before except it was with 296 not 2400. I'b like some info for the Win hulls because I have about 1000 of them all once fired. I had alot more but cut them all down to 2 1/2" a year or so ago.
I shoot skeet with a guy once in awhile that loads those stump wads. They really open a pattern up. He uses them in the loads for his full choke 870 when skeet shooting.

Thanks
Tim

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:53 pm
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Location: Marshall, TX
Tim, BP didn't list any 5/8oz loading for the Win hull. If I stumble across anything I'll give a shout. Good hunting and good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:35 pm 
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I always thought that was strange. I've found 5/8loads for Rem and Fed hulls but none for the Winchester. With the Winchester hull having less capacity you'd think there'd be more loads for them.

Thanks
Tim

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:00 am
Posts: 1009
HuntNshoot wrote:
For the same price of a case of the Winchester factory 3/4oz loads I can buy a Mec600Jr. That may be my best move.


HuntNshoot,

I have the Mec600Jr and would have no other for the .410. I never hurry on .410's and single stage is fine with me.

I have had the best patterns with the Federal .410 wad (410SC). It has a deeper cup than the "stretch" wad mentioned. I've had the best results with W296 powder in 3", and LilGun in 2 1/2's.

Slidehammer


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:41 am 
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I kind of wish they would bring back the old style PAPER shells with the shot protection wad. Seems like the older 3" shells had more power that what they have now. Aslo the 3" were a FULL 3" newer plastic shells seem a bit shorter to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:00 am
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HOOSIER_5 wrote:
I kind of wish they would bring back the old style PAPER shells with the shot protection wad. Seems like the older 3" shells had more power that what they have now. Aslo the 3" were a FULL 3" newer plastic shells seem a bit shorter to me.


Hoosier,

I too would like to see paper hulls reappear in several areas.
I agree the old paper .410 loads were more potent but any extra was lost in patterns for me with the unprotected shot.

The roll crimp needs back as well as the full 3" length. A little extra room is then available in the already cramped .410 3" hull.

A new wad would be the best however. All the new technology doesn't need to go into steel shot loads IMHO. By using high density blends or other higher strength plastics in a .410 shotcup, a 3" full length wad could be made that would be thin yet strong and would fully protect 3" 3/4 ounce loads!

Then load to 1200fps with the 3/4oz. Lyman's #4 manual didn't have a bit of problem getting 1200fps with 3/4oz in Federal and Remington hulls with W296 and at low pressures (for .410 anyway) to boot!

Then we would have the best the 3" .410 could offer.

Slidehammer


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:53 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Marshall, TX
Slide, have you tried any of the roll-crimping tools available from PR or BP? Good hunting and good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:21 pm 
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HuntNshoot wrote:
Slide, have you tried any of the roll-crimping tools available from PR or BP? Good hunting and good luck.


My .410 roll crimper is from Precision, HuntNShoot. It does a good job and is the cheaper of the two. BP's has a deeper "guide" area before the rolling area which is a nice convenience. The PR .410 roll crimper needs a close alignment to start or it crawls off. I use a drill press at slowest speed and use care with 3" hulls.

Maybe of interest to you is a crimp memory removal method I use......

I have a steel rod that is a snug fit to the inside of a .410 hull and have "rolled" both Winchester and Remington 3" hulls between two small pieces of hot steel plate. (Not so hot as to melt the plastic.)
After "ironing" the six point memory out I have gotten decent roll crimps on fired hulls of all brands.

Slidehammer


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:53 pm
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Location: Marshall, TX
Slide, would a clothes iron work for the memory application? Seems like a lot of work heating the two iron plates. Good idea though.

I bought a 20ga roll-crimper from BP and it works well. I loaded up 10 rounds this afternoon in Federal Game Hulls. I didn't have all the components for the 7/8oz load I wanted to make, so I loaded a 1oz recipie from the Lyman #4. I have quite a few of these hulls and the case mouth doesn't seem to have much of a memory. In fact, some of them look like unfired hulls, though they are not. I got good-looking crimps, though they are longer than a factory 2 3/4" shell as I didn't trim them (2.409vs2.242). Don't know how this will play out yet. I don't mind "slow going" when loading shells, since mine are mostly for hunting and I don't have to make large volumes.

I'll probably order the MEC 600Jr in .410 this week, and some Fiocchi hulls, #7 shot, and some Stretch wads from BP. I suppose I'll need overshot wads too, and some new powder--geez. There goes my 28 ga auto, lol. Good hunting and good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:00 am
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HuntNshoot wrote:
Slide, would a clothes iron work for the memory application? Seems like a lot of work heating the two iron plates.


HuntNshoot,

I don't know why it wouldn't as long as it could be set low enough to not melt the plastic. I have heated only one of my two plates and except for a little more ironing time it was fine...... I've gotten pretty good at heating the two plates with a torch and then testing that they don't melt an old hull..... then I roll away. You can do a surprising number before they cool to uselessness. A clothes iron might even be as fast ironing against a cold plate with more rolls required as it stays hot without the needed "warm up cycle" for the two plates.....

Slidehammer


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:49 am 
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Maybe, with the price of oil going up, and as we know, plastic is a byproduct of oil. It might be that some attempt will be made to reintroduce the paper shotgun shell cases in some gauges. :idea:

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:52 pm 
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I was wondering if anyone has chrono'd the new ¾oz winchester loads. I'm asking because Remington .410 loads tend to be a little hotter than advertised. I've gotten 1260's from factory STS's, and 1350 from factory 3 inch 6's!!!! This is from a 28 inch model 42, 3 feet from the muzzle.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 3/4 oz .410 load
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:00 am
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pumpgun wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has chrono'd the new ¾oz winchester loads.


pumpgun,

The new .410 "HS" 3" Winchester 11/16oz loads chronographed 1215fps from my 25" 870 barrel. Federal 3" are closer to specs at 1150fps in the same barrel. It would be interesting if the new 3/4 load WW ran high as well........ I also want to chronograph the 3" Fiocchi with the full length wad when my 7 1/2's arrive in this load.

Slidehammer




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