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 Post subject: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:02 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:58 pm
Posts: 60
Location: Maryland
Wich is better? Cleaner? just wanna see opinions. Thanks




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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:53 pm
Posts: 839
Location: Unadilla New York
I dont know much about clays but I am currently switching from green dot to red dot. I know that red dot burns hotter and cleaner and is higher pressure, so you dont need as much to equal a higher load of green dot for instance, hence making it easier on your wallet. I used to use 700x and Im going to assume that red dot and 700x are similiar, not really sure, but I would say so. Hope this helps a little, someone tell me if Im wrong on something hear.

-Rob

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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:55 pm
Posts: 938
Location: Southern Maryland
I've always had a 'thing' about "Clean" powders.
Compared to what?
I've always cleaned my firearms, no matter whether it was a revolver, rifle, or a scattergun, after a shooting session.
IMNSHO, no powder is clean.

As for powders. . . .
I used to load my trap loads with 452AA, then switched to 473AA Winchester powder. Nice loads. Kinda uniform.
Magnum loads, I used Win 571 powder.
Now, I don't load magnum loads.
I load only with Red Dot. I don't like the Universal Charge Bar, either. Bought one - - - It wouldn't or couldn't throw the same charge twice if my life depended on it.
The first person that wanted to know about it, I sold it to him for half what I paid, just to get rid of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:16 pm
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Location: Long Island, NY
I have always found the Hodgdon products to be somewhat cleaner than Alliant.

Frank


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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:32 pm 
Reloading Expert
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:48 am
Posts: 1743
Location: Lawton, Oklahoma
Alliant has definitely cleaned up Red Dot and Green Dot. Red Dot is very similar to Clays and Green Dot is very similar to International, but the Hodgdon propellants still burn somewhat cleaner. Truth is, though, that the small difference in cleanliness doesn't amount to anything of significance.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:23 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:07 am
Posts: 1790
Location: Paris,Illinois
Just wanted to toss in my nickle--twelve gauge shooters are ENTIRLEY too worried about "clean burning" powder.Next time ya get a chance look down the barrel of a 410--it'll scare ya---broke birds not dirty barrels are what we think of :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: Yeah--now I gotcha thinking--- :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:57 am 
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Yep. That WC820 in the .410 is not very clean to me, but it sure breaks clays out of my little 311 SxS. :D

I just tried a pound of International for a 7/8oz 12ga load. It's as clean as factory STS loads in my opinion. No experience with Red Dot.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:53 pm
Posts: 839
Location: Unadilla New York
I worry about clean powders because of those six day tournaments shooting 300 shells a day. Some of those days you just dont either fee like it or have the time to get the cleaning stuff out.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:19 am 
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Never shot red dot. I like Clays a lot. It seems "clean" to me and it works in reduced velocity loads. The plastic crap left in the gun makes more work to clean than the powder.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 1103
Location: SE MI
I was a Red Dot shooter for decades. Having tried other powders such as AA452 and PB, I stuck with Red Dot because I felt it did the best job.
What I didn't like about it was two things. First, it really smokes. In my auto, I would load and fire one shell. When I put another shell into the chamber, a smoke ring would pop out the barrel.
Secondly, after a day of shooting, my right arm would be covered with little black flecs of Red Dot. That was because the empties would fly out and a flec or three of unburned powder would end up on my arm.

Never had a problem with Red Dot, but stuff like that bothered me. I used 18gr Red Dot, AA12 Wad, 1 1/8 oz shot, WW209 primer.

After doing so research on the web (forums like this), I decided to try a couple of lbs of Clays. So I basically had shells loaded with both Red Dot and Clays. I used the same components as my Red Dot load, only 17.9gr of Clays (which is what the bushing threw).

In the auto, Clays smoked, albeit a lot less. And there were no flecs on my arm.

I had subsequently acquired an O/U. Using Red Dot, I would have to break down the gun and clean the receiver with a tooth brush to get all the Red Dot flakes out of it. This did not happen with Clays.

While I still think Red Dot is a terrific powder, I'm loading Clays. The only thing I don't like about Clays is that it is imported, whereas Red Dot is made in this country. I have plans in the future to try E3, but for now, I'm sticking with Clays.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:54 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:39 pm
Posts: 4292
Location: NC USA
Red dot is nasty...plain and simple. I shoot it too. But the clays is cleaner but it cost a lot more at least here anyways.I`ve recently switched to promo. I`ll have to see how that goes. From my experience with hodgon powder in the smaller guages overall its cleaner than most powders.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:40 pm
Posts: 1654
Location: NW PA
[quote="DisinterestedThirdParty"]I was a Red Dot shooter for decades. Having tried other powders such as AA452 and PB, I stuck with Red Dot because I felt it did the best job.
What I didn't like about it was two things. First, it really smokes. In my auto, I would load and fire one shell. When I put another shell into the chamber, a smoke ring would pop out the barrel.
Secondly, after a day of shooting, my right arm would be covered with little black flecs of Red Dot. That was because the empties would fly out and a flec or three of unburned powder would end up on my arm.

While I still think Red Dot is a terrific powder, I'm loading Clays. The only thing I don't like about Clays is that it is imported, whereas Red Dot is made in this country. I have plans in the future to try E3, but for now, I'm sticking with Clays.[/quote]

The one time I tried Red Dot, I experienced something similiar.... I use a pump and when I'd pump the empties out into my hand, I'd wind up with unburnt Red Dot flakes on my hand. Didn't like that.

I currently use e3 and have no complaints about it. I've been shooting less targets an outing (trap) now that it's winter, and have noticed the barrel isn't as clean afterwards as it was in the summer. This past weekend though I shot 200 targets, and when I went to clean the barrel out, there were only a couple unburnt flakes in there. Looked better after 200 shots than it does after 50. Guess it just needs the chance to get warmed up!

I've tried Clays and it was very clean, and if my choice was between it or Red Dot, I'd choose Clays. Haven't tried Alliant's Clay Dot yet, but if it performs as good as Clays, I'd buy it since it's made in America.

Michael


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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:16 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 3477
Location: Rochester, NY
I think shooters are getting "obsessive" over "clean" powders. I suppose as soon as a powder manufactures comes out with a "barrel cleaning powder", everybody will switch to it. I buy the cheapest powder I can find and I have used Clays, Red Dot, 700X and every other one available at one time or another. I just cannot seem to understand why a few powder flecks in a barrel is something to get upset about or use as a measure of a powder. You are going to get more crap in the barrel from the wad for crying out loud, and a lot harder to clean out. I do a lot of competitive shooting in Trap, Skeet and SC so I buy a lot of powder. I am using Promo right now as it is the cheapest I can find around here. The shells go bang every time I pull the trigger and the birds break the same regardless of powder brand. To me,, "clean powders" are simply Sales Hype. Powder residue is so easy to get out of a bore what's the big deal?? The residue is certainy not going to screw up your next shot like it was lead fouling in a rifle.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:59 pm 
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If the guys that shoot an say "Ah, don't worry about a dirty barrel" are so complacent about dirty powders, then why don't you just shoot black powder? That should make your "barrel dirty" day. :lol:

I like to look down my barrels after I shoot an see how they look, make sure nothings in the barrel. I like to see a halfway clean barrel, not something that looks like the inside of a stovepipe from a woodburning stove. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:35 am
Posts: 3477
Location: Rochester, NY
Black powder is getting too expensive anymore.
I guess the little bit of particles I see in my barrel just don't bother me any more than a little dust on a table. When it does bother me I just take a minute or two and clean it off. Clean powder doesn't make my guns shoot any better or worse and the next shot blows it out anyways and it is easier to clean up than BP anyways. I suppose if I get so anal about a clean barrel and the need for super clean powders I will just quit shooting a gun for fear of these hard to get rid of powder flecks. I will also have to get rid of my 28 and .410 barrels as there isn't any really clean powders out there yet and it will probably ruin my barrels. As far as I can tell, the clean powders do nothing but eliminate the few particles in your barrel. I suppose if that is important to someone, it certainly is their business and not mine


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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:06 pm 
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I wish I could get a photo of the PB, Bullseye, and International residue left in my O/U bbl.

These latest International loads actually did "clean" out the crud left behind by the others. Hardly a flake at all visible. No visible buildup on the bbl walls. The PB and Bullseye left much more of the stove pipe residue referred to by Eyemissum.

These are my experiences with the loads/gr weight I was shooting.

I'm now going to try the Promo. We'll see how it goes.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:56 am
Posts: 1893
Location: Wisconsin
You may also want to consider Alliant's new powder Claydot, which is supposed to be the equivalent of Hodgdon's Clays, and made in this country.

I am going to try some when I can find it around here.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:48 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:41 am
Posts: 10508
Location: Cadiz,Ky
I shot Red Dot for many years and had to clean my guns. Switched to Clays for a few years and had to clean my guns. Now shoot mostly Promo and STILL clean my guns.

ARE YA LISTENING?

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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:14 am 
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Location: Eastern Oklahoma
driller wrote:
I shot Red Dot for many years and had to clean my guns. Switched to Clays for a few years and had to clean my guns. Now shoot mostly Promo and STILL clean my guns.

ARE YA LISTENING?

Yepuuuuurrrr...

Been cleaning guns ever since I started shooting, and that was back when sabre-tooth tigers roamed the woods and pterodactyls soared above.

And it's still just as easy to remove "dirty" powder as it is "clean" powder.

All powder's dirty -- some just dirtier than others.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Dot vs Clays
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:21 am 
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