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 Post subject: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:48 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:33 pm
Posts: 68
Location: hartford CT
i have ben hunting with steel and don't like it i was wondering what type of shells would be the best for canadian geese


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:17 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:52 am
Posts: 4627
My favorite for the biggest Canadas is a 3", 1 1/4 oz load of steel BBB at 1400-1450 fps. It will bring them down at any angle out to 60 yards if you do your part. It takes some adjustment as the leads and patterns may be different when using large steel than lead. In the other non-toxics I have had good experience with Kent Tungsten Matrix in #1 or #3, Bismuth in BB, and Hevi-Shot in #4 and #2. I haven't used any of the newer Hevi-Steel type yet but would expect the #B to be a good choice.


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:13 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:02 am
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Location: Ontario, Canada
I love Kent 3 1/2" 1 3/8OZ #1's at 1550 FPS


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:22 pm
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Location: Newfoundland
You say you don't like steel. In that case, I would use #2 3" Hevishot. Or Kent TM #1 3". I have had good experiences with Hevi, you will not be dissapointed!

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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:32 am 
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Location: Michigan
Quote:
i have ben hunting with steel and don't like it
What gauge, shell length, shot size, load weight (oz), velocity, brand?

I like a 12 gauge 3 1/2" load of Winchester with 1 3/8oz of BB's at 1,550fps. I have no problems with this load at 50 yards on big geese.


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:08 pm
Posts: 446
Location: Washington
Quote:
i have ben hunting with steel and don't like it
Quote:
What gauge, shell length, shot size, load weight (oz), velocity, brand?

I like Hevi-shot(Remington) 3" 1 3/8 2's or 4's at 1450fps, or Kent Tungsen Matrix 3" 1 5/8 1's or 3's at approx. 1380fps (12 gauge)


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:24 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:33 pm
Posts: 68
Location: hartford CT
i live in ct and i cant use bbb the bigest i can leagly go bb.

and what type of of kent should i use matrix or fast steel


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:45 pm 
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Location: Washington
535sx2 wrote:
i live in ct and i cant use bbb the bigest i can leagly go bb.
and what type of of kent should i use matrix or fast steel

Kent tungsten matrix weighs about the same as lead. It has more energy than steel if everything being equal(especially down range) but it cost a lot more.

Box of 10 Tungsten Matrix cost approximately $17.99 vs. box of 25 Fast Steel cost approximately $13.99 in 3" 12 gauge.

I would shoot both to see what patterns best out of your gun. I have found that some super fast steel doesn’t pattern well out of my gun. If I shoot geese with steel shot, I usually use 3" 1 1/4 1's or BB's at 1400fps.


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:15 am
Posts: 1307
Location: Western Minnesota
I read somewhere that the average range at which geese are taken over decoys in North America is 50.5 yards, and the average range at which they are pass shot is 68 yards. At those ranges you are right to examine other choices than steel. Not that a BBB pellet cannot kill a goose at 70 yards, but with about 75 BBB pellets in an averge 1 1/4 oz load, your odds of a fatal hit are considerably worse than with 3" loads of #1 TM or #2 HS, either one of which will have well over 100 pellets, and killing energy per pellet roughly equivalent to a steel BBB at that range.

Myself, I am very excited about the new High/Heavy Density loads now being produced by Winchester and Remington. The pellets are round like Tungsten Matrix, but about 10% heavier. The 1 3/8 oz loads of #2 @ 1450 fps should be all anyone needs to kill geese. I expect they'll pattern tighter than TM too, otherwise I'd probably stick with #1 TM just because it's nice and soft and won't damage my teeth if I bite down on one. :wink:

-Dave

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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:21 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:52 am
Posts: 4627
BB steel can be effective on the largest Canadas out to about 50 yards. At that range they will exit geese the size of snows. One does need to pattern their gun as not all loads nor chokes perform the same. The best cure to the vast majority of waterfowling woes is to learn to bring the goose or duck into one's personal range. Your gun and load may be capable of 60 yard shots but chances are the shooter is not. Practice at the range at those actual distances and type of shots are needed on a regular basis and it certainly does not hurt to become more proficient at scouting, decoy placement, and calling. It is much easier and cheaper to bring birds into your range than it is to learn to extend yours.


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:34 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:49 am
Posts: 5
Location: central n.y.
i use #6 shot in 3.5 heavy for geese.I have dropped those big honkers at 50-60 yards,{stone dead}


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:57 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:23 pm
Posts: 1792
I like a 3 inch 20 gauge shell. Either no. 4 hevi-shot or no. 3 tungsten matrix. Either one of these loads are better than any steel shot shell made of any gauge. And best of all, a 3 inch 20 gauge shell doesn't kick but a fraction of one of those 3 and 1/2 inch 12 gauge monster shells.


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 19
Crap Load wrote:
I love Kent 3 1/2" 1 3/8OZ #1's at 1550 FPS


my sediments exactly!


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:46 pm 
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Location: Michigan
Quote:
And best of all, a 3 inch 20 gauge shell doesn't kick but a fraction of one of those 3 and 1/2 inch 12 gauge monster shells.
Not really! Most 20 gauge models weigh less than a 12 gauge model, especially a 3 1/2" model. Load weight, gun weight, and shell velocity are all factors that go into recoil. For felt recoil, gun fit is more important than any of them.
A 12 gauge will almost always out pattern a 20 gauge with the same load weight. The same goes for the big ten over the 3 1/2" 12 with the same loads. This is a reason the 20 is not as near as popular for goose hunting as the 3 1/2" 12 or 10 even used with steel loads.


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:02 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:26 am
Posts: 273
Location: Wisconsin
Kent fasteel 1 1/4 of bb's or 2's at 1625 fps they kill geese just fine for me. So does all the other loads out there that shoot 1 3/8 ounce of steel at 1550 fps.

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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:53 am 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:15 am
Posts: 1307
Location: Western Minnesota
Recoil is constantly in competition with the price of tungsten based shot for my #1 dislike about shotgunnning. :x But I like 20 gauge recoil a lot better than 12 gauge 3.5". Plus, a 20 gauge BPS weighs 7 lbs, not much less than most 12 gauges. That is the ideal solution IMO. However, they still don't have what I'd consider a really solid 60+ yard 20 gauge goose load on the market, so for now I'm stickin' with 12. #1 TM smashes the heck out of 'em! T, BBB, and BB steel just wound geese, at least in my hands. :oops: Might be different if I could afford goose dekes...

-Dave

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"If it flies it dies. And if it sits it dies too. –Phil Robertson


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:34 am 
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Location: Michigan
Felt recoil with a 7lb pump and a 3" 20 gauge load will more than likely have as much as or more than an auto in 3 1/2" 12 gauge that weighs a pound more. A BPS in 3 1/2" 12 gauge weighs 8 1/4lbs. The 10 gauge BPS weighs a massive 10 1/2lbs.


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:35 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:23 pm
Posts: 1792
I have patterned my 20 gauge many, many times. It is an 11-87 Remington and it weighs right at 7 pounds. Heavy for a 20. But a real pleasure to shoot. Even with 3 inch shells. I patterned 12 gauges for my co-workers with hevi-shot. I am talking 3 inch because there is no reason to ever reload 3 and 1/2" 12 gauge in hevi-shot. I have been shooting my 20 for so long I wasn't prepared for how hard a 3 inch 12 gauge kicks. It about dislocated my shoulder. And I am not even talking about 3 and 1/2". I owned one of the first to come out. It kicked like a mule. I dreaded patterning it. What is the comparison of the best steel to the tiny 20 gauge loads? According to the Delta mallard load study the best 3 1/2" 12 gauge steel loads (that I would use for geese) are BBB and BB. Although the Delta study was for mallards I can use the lethality range for comparison. But I use the size pellets necessary for good killing shots on geese (None of these loads were recommended for mallards due to the lack of pellets). These steel loads are at 1550 fps, that is why they kick so hard, not to mention the ear deafening sound. The steel BBB load has 84 pellets and a killing range on mallards of 64 yards. Not very many pellets. No matter how much better it is supposed to pattern than a 20 gauge. The best steel BB load has 99 pellets and a killing range of 60 yards. The 20 gauge load of #4 hevi-shot has 141 pellets and a killing range on mallards of 61 yards. A very good dense pattern. The tungsten matrix #3's have 128 pellets and a range of 58 yards. Both of these are a superior goose load to the best steel shot monster shells. After a lot of 20 gauge 3 inch patterns in hevi-shot, lead, bismuth and tungsten matrix I have come to the conclusion that the statement that you can't get a good pattern from a 3 inch 20 gauge is a myth. I have had some beautiful patterns, especially with hevi-shot and bismuth. If I wanted to do real long range shooting I would use a 12 gauge loaded with a lot of TM or hevi-shot. But for normal goose hunting the 20 gauge is more than enough and far better than steel of any gauge.


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:05 am 
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Location: Michigan
While the Delta study is a good reference I don't take it as the gospel. I will point out of the loads that passed, 22 were 3 1/2" loads and only 4 were 20 gauge (all lengths). Also the #4 Hevi Shot did not pass the Delta study in any shell length or load weight in a 20 gauge shell. Hevi Shots own web site shows 120 pellets with a 20 gauge load of 1 1/8oz and 134 pellets in a 20 gauge load of 1 1/4oz. Shoving a 1 1/4oz load a skinny 20 gauge barrel will have a very hard time patterning as good as a 1 1/4oz load in a 12 gauge. Not to mention the added recoil produced in a lighter weight gun. If you do enough pattern work. You will find there is usually better patterns produced with bigger bore 12 gauges over standard bore 12 gauges with non toxic loads. The only reason that the 10 gauge is still around is the fact that the tend to pattern better and have less recoil than the 3 1/2" 12 gauge.
The only thing I find mythical is the claim of a 20 gauge with any load being better than either a 12 3 1/2" or 10 gauge for geese.


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 Post subject: Re: which loads to use for geese
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:23 pm
Posts: 1792
The Delta study is for mallards only. I used the chart to compare the lethality distances for mallards. They required at least 200 pellets per load to be effective for ducks at long range. That eliminates almost all goose loads. To shoot geese you don't need that many pellets because the targets vital areas are bigger. If you look at the study, even for mallards, NOT ONE steel load of any gauge was recommended for DUCKS beyond 40 yards. Not one. But there were 20 gauge loads in both tungsten matrix and hevi-shot. And they didn't even consider the loads in hevi-shot of 1 1/4 oz. which you can get in hevi-shot for a 20 gauge. They used 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. All I am saying is 20 gauge loads in TM and hevi-shot are better than ANY steel loads. They are not better than 12 gauge TM and hevi-shot. But if you are willing to spend a little more for shells or reload you can use your 20 gauge and still have a better shell than your hunting companions with their big 12 gauge 3 1/2 inch steel shot shells.


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