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 Post subject: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:32 am 
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Need help on rules on shipping guns. Gun is in NC and I live in IL. Do I need to ship from NC to IL via FFL or Can I ship direct? I understand warranty work on shotguns can be shipped by private party to repair service . Whats the real answer ?




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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:35 am 
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If the gun is coming to you from another state then it must be received by an FFL. If the gun is being sent from you to an out of state buyer then you can legally ship directly to an FFL. My FFL told me they can receive guns from anyone, just not give them to anyone. I don't know about warranty work.

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:36 am 
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Location: Monticello, AR
You will need an FFL holder on your end as the receiving party. The FFL holder will have to send the individual shipping the gun (NC) a copy of the FFL to attach to the package for shipping. Typically FFL holders will charge a transfer fee for doing this and you will have to fill out paperwork just as if you bought the gun from a dealer.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:43 am 
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Location: wisconsin
You can ship all parts direct except the reciever cant you?


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:45 am 
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imwllc wrote:
You can ship all parts direct except the reciever cant you?


Yes. The receiver is a "firearm". The other parts are not.

You can ship a firearm directly to a gunsmith for repair or modification because gunsmiths have FFL's. The gunsmith can ship your gun directly back to you, because there is no change of ownership involved in the transaction. If the gun (or its receiver) has to be exchanged for a different one, I'm not sure, but I think it has to be shipped to your FFL so he can do the NICS check on it and get you to sign the forms.

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:04 pm 
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First off who owns this gun?

If it is yours already, you can ship it to yourself. If you are buying it from someone out of state, you need to have it shipped to an FFL dealer in your state for transfer. If it is yours being repaired, a smith can ship it back to you without going through an FFL.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:55 pm 
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I'm a dealer and this is all good advise.
I would just add one thing to clear up any confusion.
The FFL that would be needed to ship a gun, is not attached to the package, it is kept by the shipping dealer to show the disposition of the gun that was formerly on his books. He either needs a form 4473 to show the sale of the gun to a customer, or an FFL to show the disposition of the gun to another dealer. In fact the Post Office and most other shippers DON'T want any outward evidence that the package contains a weapon.
That's not to say that it isn't a good idea to include a copy with the gun, should the package be searched, but it's not necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:07 pm 
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one more thing from my past experiance just last week. the person sending the firearm to the ffl holder should send a photo copy of their drivers liscens so the ffl holder can log the firearm in for transfer. the guy that sent me my action forgot to include it with the action so before my ffl holder could log it in and release it to me i had to have the guy fax a copy to my ffl holder. just a small headach you don't need if you don't have to.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:38 pm 
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Don't forget your FOID card to even TOUCH the gun once it reaches Ill.

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:12 pm
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Location: Lewsitown PA, Jacksonville NC, Norfolk VA
I spoke to someone at the post office yesterday when I was shipping a gun. He stated that I wouldn't need an FFL to ship from private party to another private party if it was a shotgun or rifle with a barrel length of over 18". Not sure if this is true or how shipping to different states plays into this. Can anyone clear this up. I am going to do some more research on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:36 am 
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You can ship intra state using the postal service,once you go interstate,as the other posters have stated,you need an FFL transfer,the 18 " barrel length is the legal length for a firearm,without getting,a
federal tax stamp requirement.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:48 am 
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Not sure what's going on here? Is the OP the owner of the shotgun in question or is this a transfer between different people? It matters. If the OP is shipping his own gun to another state for his own use, then he can ship it to himself (nobody but himself should open the package, though). If there are two people involved, then it has to go to an FFL.

Also, Illinois complicates thing with a whole bunch of stupid state laws. I'll let somebody from Illinois comment on that. otherwise . . .

Federal law, per BATFE website:

Quote:
May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.


May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?


A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.


From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?


A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

May a person who is relocating out of State move firearms with other household goods?

Yes. A person who lawfully possesses a firearm may transport or ship the firearm interstate when changing his or her State of residence.

Certain NFA firearms must have prior approval from the Bureau of ATF before they may be moved interstate. The person must notify the mover that firearms are being transported. He or she should also check State and local laws where relocating to ensure that movement of firearms into the new State does not violate any State law or local ordinance.



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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:52 am 
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SeanMiller wrote:
I spoke to someone at the post office yesterday when I was shipping a gun. He stated that I wouldn't need an FFL to ship from private party to another private party if it was a shotgun or rifle with a barrel length of over 18". Not sure if this is true or how shipping to different states plays into this. Can anyone clear this up. I am going to do some more research on it.


It's true if both parties are residents of the same state. It's a federal crime if they are residents of different states.

Also, in regards to an interstate shipment, only the recipient must be an FFL. Non-licensed individuals may ship a gun to an FFL. See the stuff I quoted in the post above.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:58 am 
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I have ship two guns to be repaired one just last fall. I just shipped my shotgun to myself yesterday so it will be at my local post office when I get home. One requirement is it needs to be taken apart. Easy with most shot guns, may be simply removing the bolt would work for a rifle.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:32 am 
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tjen wrote:
I have ship two guns to be repaired one just last fall. I just shipped my shotgun to myself yesterday so it will be at my local post office when I get home. One requirement is it needs to be taken apart. Easy with most shot guns, may be simply removing the bolt would work for a rifle.



That's news to me (I'm an FFL and ship guns pretty regularly). Can you cite either a BATF statement or a USPS policy to that effect?


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:12 am 
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Why does this always seem to be so hard for folks to grasp?

If there is a change in ownership and the firearm crosses a state line, you need a licensed dealer at the receiving end.

In some states, you must go through a FFL even for transfers within the state. Washington is now one of those states. Check your state law.

Some FFLs will only accept shipment from other FFLs as a matter of preference, not law.

You can ship your firearm directly to a repair shop/manufacturer for service and they can ship it directly back to you when the work is completed.

You can ship your own firearm to yourself at a temporary location for hunting or competition and ship it back to yourself when you are done with the activity. A FFL is not required. Don't play games with this provision; it can have serious consequences!

Post office and UPS/FedEx employees are the last people on earth I would consider to be authoritative on rules applying to firearms. More than half of them will give you bad information and insist that it is correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:13 pm 
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What OldSkeeter said. Anyone can "what if and how about this" anything to death. If a change of ownership takes place and the gun crosses state lines, an FFL has to get involved. You can ship directly to a repair facility and they can ship directly back to you. Their is no change of ownership involved and no FFL is needed. Those two sentences cover 99% of long gun shipments. In all cases check your state laws. The above statements deal with Federal and Postal laws. State laws may differ.
Ditto on Post Office employees being the least informed on the requirements and laws. I live in a small Kansas town and our local Post Office manager is a great person and friend. I tried to mail a gun for repairs and she would not accept it. I showed her the regs and she still claimed I had to use the FFL dealer in town to ship it. I took the gun to a neighboring Post Office and it was on its way in five minutes.

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:09 pm 
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Lordy, I just love it when someone opens an EIGHT YEARS OLD post instead of starting a new one!!!!

I must start checking the DATE of the first posting in every thread!!!

THANKS

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:21 pm 
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Road Rat wrote:
Lordy, I just love it when someone opens an EIGHT YEARS OLD post instead of starting a new one!!!!

I must start checking the DATE of the first posting in every thread!!!

THANKS



D'oh!


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping Guns - Need FFL or Not ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:59 pm 
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IL has their own rules, so consult the proper authorities on that aspect. If the gun is in NC for repair at a gunsmith that you shipped the gun to, FEDERAL rules allow it to be shipped back to you directly - again IL rules may require something else. If you are in IL and need to ship the gun to NC for repair, you can do it legally per FEDERAL rules.

If the gun is in NC at a private party, then it MUST go to a FFL in your state per FEDERAL rules



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