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 Post subject: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:45 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:15 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Winston-Salem, North Carolina
I have been fighting the urge to buy a CZ woodcock 20 gauge for quite some time now, mainly because of the negative feedback on this forum. Every time I go to the gunshop and handle one of the woodcock's, I start getting the itch to pull out the little piece of plastic with the magnetic strip on the back. However, I always start remembering the many quality issues that have been mentioned on this forum, and gently put the gun back.Myquestion is this, how many satisfied CZ ownersare out there, that for whatever reason choose to remain silent? It seems to me that some of the negative things that have been posted about CZ, come from third party information. So, lets make this a once and for all thread about CZ shotguns. Lets hear from those of you that actually own the guns, or have some type of first hand experience with the guns. I dont want to start any ugly fights, or see anyones feelings get hurt, but I would like for this to be a definative post on the topic of CZ shotgun quality. Lets also leave DeHaan out of the dicsussion, as I think they are in a slightly different category. Besides, we know Huglu can make a quality gun, i.e. the Kimber Valier. I want to focus specifically on the CZ offerings. Ok, have at it, but lets try to be civil, as I dont want to be blamed for causing trouble on the forum.


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:16 am 
ID & Value Expert
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 pm
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We've already had that. If you do a search, you can find it, or maybe you don't want to find it.. Why leave one of them out, they're all out of the same litter.. Bushrod


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:10 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:39 pm
Posts: 4051
Location: NC USA
I owned a redhead. For the money a fairly good gun. Would I buy another? Honestly probably not unless it was for a kid or totally novice shooter. The fit,triggers and several other factors are my reasons. I`d just rather save my money until I could buy a better gun.


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:45 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:04 am
Posts: 52
Jason,

I bought a CZ Ringneck NIB. After less than a box of shells, the saftey stopped working. Within 6 boxes of shells, the firing pin broke. Aside from this, the triggers were about 8lbs. Fit and finish was OK, not great, just OK. Sent the gun back to CZ and they replaced the gun with one with poorer fit and finish, poorer wood and case coloring showing white metal all around the edges. Now I have a replacement gun of poorer cosmetic quality than any I have yet to see. It's a gun I have not been able to sell and I don't want to shoot it because I don't have any faith in it holding up.

Although second hand information, a guy I shoot with on a regular basis has a DeHann 28ga SXS. It's now one year old and has had two firing pins replaced. Each time it went back to DeHann and after 4-5 weeks the gun was repaired.

You really do have to put all Huglu guns in the same basket. They are all the same gun, just marketed by different people and the differences are purely cosmetic.

In a 20ga, there are much better guns for almost the same amount of money, the older SKBs for instance. My CZ was a .410, which of course is a whole other ballgame when it comes to availability in an afordable gun.

Some wise machinist would do well by making and selling quality aftermarket, hammers, pins and springs for these guns.


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:37 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:08 pm
Posts: 15589
Location: Wyoming
I had a CZ 720 semi auto, junk absolute junk. Sent it back for firing fully auto. they sent a new gun. It quickly broke and I traded the thing off when I bought a new Benelli M1. Best decision I ever made regarding Huglu/DeHaan/CZ. No wonder they dropped them from their offering, DeHaan also used to sell the Huglu semis and dropped thme from his products too.

There are so many other good O/U's out there I would never consider one of these guns again, I also have DeHaan's that too have had mechanical failures. fixed but at the expense of not having the gun for a month durring hunting season a major inconvenience. As for sxs's there isn't much in mid priced guns.

I decided to save my money and move up to a Benelli M1 20 ga and it is by far such a step above these Turkish Imports it just isn't a comparison.

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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:01 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:34 am
Posts: 2171
Location: North Central, Washington
Turkish guns are generally poor quality. How many times do we have to go through this.


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:47 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:47 am
Posts: 1409
Location: San Antonio, TX
I have a CZ Bobwhite in 20 gauge that I like just fine. Haven't owned it long enough to make a definitive long term reliability statement, but I liked the gun's feel and I shoot it very well (for me, anyway) at skeet so far. It is not equal to some of my more expensive guns, but then I paid $585 for it after taxes, too. If I slip and fall down a ravine with it when after Texas quail I won't feel too bad when it gets scratched up.....

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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:24 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:15 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Winston-Salem, North Carolina
Also, something wlse I thought about. How many of you that had problems, purchased the guns shortly after they came out, vs. recently produced CZ/Huglu guns?


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:59 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:04 am
Posts: 52
Well, Huglu has supposedly been in the gun business for 70 years or so. All of the problems therefore can't be attributed to new gun manufacturing hicups. I don't see any evidence of any manufacturing changes between the first imported guns and the current batch. You do get what you pay for and some of us are slower learners than others, while yet others refuse to learn from first hand knowledge. Hey HiFli, where is that ravine in Texas. I have one NIB gun for deposit.


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:06 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:31 am
Posts: 1455
Location: California
Jason,
If you are trying to buy a new O/U without spending the $1300-1400 or so that a Lightning or Onyx cost, consider the SKB 505 or Weatherby Orion. For about $100 more than a Woodcock you will get a legitimate Japanese O/U with fit and finish that is equal to, or slightly better than a Browning from Gart/Oshmans/Sports Authority. The only caveat is that SKB/Weatherby locate the barrel selector in the trigger (SSC excepted)--a safety faux pas in my opinion.
...j


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:31 pm
Posts: 1946
Location: DFW, Texas
oletymer wrote:
Turkish guns are generally poor quality. How many times do we have to go through this.


Comments like this are generally poor quality. ;) No specifics provided to back it up.


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:45 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:04 am
Posts: 52
Note the topic heading:

Gun Opinions

Opinions can be based in fact or fantasy. That works both ways. Some people factually say that their particular product has served them well, while others factually say that the product they purchased turned out to be junk. A third group, probably larger than one might suspect, would never admit making a purchasing error even if the product blew up in their face. There's a little of each going on here.


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:58 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:58 am
Posts: 154
I have a CZ Ringneck in 20 gauge. It's a great gun with properly regulated barrels. The critics are right in that quality control suffers with all Huglu shotguns. Even so if you know what to look for at the gun store you can find a good one. In other words do a little quality control inspection at the store and you'll be OK. Take some snap caps and checked the trigger pulls; sometimes they can be really heavy but seldom have much creep. Also check and see if the firing pins are hitting at the center of the primer or almost so. Sometimes on Huglu's the hole is not drilled perfectly centered. While you are at it, move the barrel selector back and forth checked the safety and fire the barrels (with snap caps of course) several times to make sure there is no doubling or other malfunction. Also check forend to make sure there is no slopp. Then checked for barrel regulation. The only way to do that is to use muzzle, not bore, laser inserts.

Many will complain that no one should have to go to this kind of trouble when buying gun. True, but you are also paying much less for the gun to begin with. Keep in mind that the B guns also have problems. On many a Citori the forend iron is too tight and will eventually cause galling.

My point is that Huglu shotguns bring a higher risk of lemons than other manufacturers. The reason to still consider them is that:
1) the guns, I'm thinking here of the side-by-side, are well-designed. They are actually over engineered much like a Merkel. They have numerous lockups and side clips and are not likely to shoot loose very quickly.
2) Their barrel regulation tends to be much better than the big-name brands. Occasionally when it is bad either De Haan or CZ will not hesitate to replace them. Don't even think about asking Browning or Beretta to replace the barrels on the gun that is off by even 6 inches. After they stopped laughing, they will tell you that that is within their tolerances.
3) The cosmetics especially wood to metal fit are usually as good or better than guns costing three times as much.
4) The price is a big consideration for those of us who could not otherwise afford a decent side-by-side or even over under.
So it's up to you, if you want to put the work into it, which in my opinion is not all that much for the bargain you could get.


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:39 am 
ID & Value Expert
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 pm
Posts: 4830
I don't understand why so many posters can't accept these guns for what they are. They don't have Quality control or we would't see so many variables. It's fact, that they have a firing pin issue. I have owned and shot hundreds of double guns over the past 55 years, I've seen 1 broken firing pin.. On one post(for one of the imports) I hear " Great fit and finish", next poster is asking how to refinish the same gun.. I hear the question asked " wha about Parts and service". I don't understand why anyone would consider a gun, that he was expecting to break down. It seem to me, as far as SXS guns go, in the low end gun category, the world is going backwards.. How many of you guys out there need parts or service for you Nitro Special, Stevens or Fulton.. Some of you people have these guns, and are happy with them, that's great. But you have to admit, a lot of them have problems..The Spanish gun industry did a lot to clean up their act from the 50s, we'll have to wait and see. Meanwhile, buy, and use them, if you like, but don't think they're more than what they are... " Is that the new B gun", only a total greenhorn would make that assumption... Bushrod


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:06 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:04 am
Posts: 52
Pathfinder,

These are different times. The current novice hunter/shooter is much older than a few years back. To me they sound like typical questions and remarks made by ten year old kids when they (we) first started hunting and shooting. I can remember hundreds of times when kids would ask questions and when they failed to get the answers they wanted, they would "Oh Yeah!" and get their back up against the wall. Same thing here. A guy buys a gun or has decided to buy a gun and then when he hears what he doesn't want to hear, he gives all of those dumb "Oh Yeah" remarks like a kids. You and I did the same thing, but we did it with our father tutors when we were ten. The difference was that we were not allowed to often make stupid decisions without paying a price, whereas these guys are stubbornly defending their decision to buy something they know little about. To them it sounded like a good idea at the time, but now they won't admit they screwed up. It's all OK though, it leaves all of those good guns out there for the the few of us who appreciate them.


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:22 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:34 am
Posts: 2171
Location: North Central, Washington
TXgolfer45, If after reading these posts and doing a search on turkish gun you have not figured it out then good luck. You evidently like lower priced guns and no one will change your mind. You talk about proof, give me proof that they are good guns.


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:20 pm 
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oletymer wrote:
TXgolfer45, If after reading these posts and doing a search on turkish gun you have not figured it out then good luck. You evidently like lower priced guns and no one will change your mind. You talk about proof, give me proof that they are good guns.


Mine works fine so far. but, I guess that isn't proof enough for you.

Have a nice day!


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:49 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:31 am
Posts: 1455
Location: California
txgolfer45 wrote:
oletymer wrote:
TXgolfer45, If after reading these posts and doing a search on turkish gun you have not figured it out then good luck. You evidently like lower priced guns and no one will change your mind. You talk about proof, give me proof that they are good guns.


Mine works fine so far. but, I guess that isn't proof enough for you.

Have a nice day!


Question: Why do people visit SGW?
Answer: It ain't to learn about statistical significance and population size.


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:07 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 8:44 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Fairhope, Alabama
My Turkish made gun has been an excellent fit for my two child (son 6 weeks and daughter 2 years) family and has proved an excellent fit in its design and function. I did go a step further and buy an SGr Dehaan SXS and its because I wanted the custom stock and higher grade wood.

Will I buy a more expensive SXS in the future: yes. Will I do it now: no. Do I feel I squandered my money: no. My SXS is everything I wanted and has been a joy to shoot. Each of my shotguns I value, and the pure pleasure of the SXS DeHaan has proved worthwhile to me.

When my wife and I restored an old Dutch Colonial near downtown Houston we left off installing the back patio until just before we moved. In the two months we had the patio we used it almost every day and kicked ourselves for not having spent the money sooner. Well, I have my custom stocked SXS now, and I'm glad I do.

Clay


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 Post subject: Re: about CZ quality, once and for all
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:10 pm 
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Quote:
Mine works fine so far. but, I guess that isn't proof enough for you.


Now that is funny. Of my 5 how many failed? [/b]4 but I guess that isn't proof enough either.

Tx Golfer have you thought about a 28 ga or a 20 ga? I have one of each for you.

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Bill S.


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