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 Post subject: Winchester Model 12 w- Cutts
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:44 pm 
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Winchester Model 12 with Cutts Compensator including Full, Mod, and Spreader. Has vent rib with engraving by Simmons.
Stock has a Duck engraving. Blueing is good and wood isn't bad.

Is 400.00 a deal?? Am considering getting it.

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 Post subject: re: Winchester Model 12 w- Cutts
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:55 pm 
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Hello Rogmatt: Well if you like choke devices, (Cutts or Polys) then maybe so. A Simmons rib makes a Md 12 a nice shooter and after market engraving can add to the eye appeal.

This gun will never be anything more than a shooter, (not a collector), check to see what notch the adjusting sleeve is on, if it's on the first one or two, you have lots of shooting life left. Since you can't tell the number of the sleeve unless you remove it.

I don't think I'd pay much more than $400.

Regards Dave


Last edited by only winchesters on Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: Winchester Model 12 w- Cutts
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:13 pm 
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I would use the cutts, the non-Winchester rib and the engraving as leverage to drop the price substantially.

Then I'd shoot the bejeezuz out of it, enjoy it for a lifetime, and pass it down.


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 Post subject: re: Winchester Model 12 w- Cutts
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:43 pm 
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I agree with wwb, but then again, a good Model 12 shooter ought to be worth $400 of anybody's money, unless of course I'm buying it! :roll:

You can't find anything else that even comes close to it's quality and pointability for anywhere near that kind of money. but if you want a Nova or an 870 express, knock yourself out!

BP

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 Post subject: re: Winchester Model 12 w- Cutts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:08 am 
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I'd jump on it. Too bad about the stock engraving, but that won't hurt its shooting ability one bit.

BobK

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 Post subject: re: Winchester Model 12 w- Cutts
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:45 pm 
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IF you like the gun buy it.

I would leave it, if it were me. I hate the Cutts. They are ugly and will pound your ears. I don't know if the Cuts will stand up to steel shot. One thing to consiter is a choke tube adapter that goes on the outside of the barrel. Brownells sell one. Then again You are fixing a 400-dollar gun. There is stuff carved in the stock?? I think that is tacky.

In 1970 a Simmons M-12 was the height of fashon. Today I look at them and shake my head. I think, to myself, an intact gun would be as good a shooter and a better investment. To each his own though.


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 Post subject: re: Winchester Model 12 w- Cutts
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:51 am 
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Rogmatt: Years ago I took a model 12 with a Cutts to a gunshow to see what it was worth so I could offer a widow who was a close friend of my mother a fair price. Each dealer knew I was not selling and there was nothing in it for them. Replies I got from two were the Cutts on the end cut the value in half. Each said the the Model 12 I showed them would have been worth about $400 if it were not for the Cutts. One other dealer who looked at it said he would not have it on his rack because even at a reduced price he could not sell a model 12 with a Cutts. I felt ok in offering the widow $200. I saw one similar to what you described with probably more wear at a pawn shop It listed for under $400 and they had it for years until they finally cut the price down and someone bought it. On a similar note I had a dealer almost beg me to buy a well worn Ithica 37 for $150 with a Cutts on it because he was tired of bringing it to gunshow after gunshow. I sure would try to get that model 12 cheaper than $400 and know that when you have it with a Cutts it really is yours. They are loud, but not any louder than someone shooting the latest trendy over-under with ported barrels. A great piece of history and workmanship from era gone by.


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 Post subject: re: Winchester Model 12 w- Cutts
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:08 am 
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Hello everyone: first there are TWO types of Cutts installations.

First Winchester offered the Cutts as an option starting in 1939. These barrels were forged with the Cutts base on them. Also Winchester hand lapped the choke tubes to thier requirement of the desired choke tube, (Full, Mod., Imp/Cyl, Spreader etc) to ensure they would meet the patterning riquirements of the specific choke. Factory (Winchester) barrels had no choke designation on it, it was left off. (no Full, Mod, or Imp/Cyl etc near where the chamber length was stamped).

The second would be a Full, Mod. or Imp/Cyl choked barrel that was modified by ADDING a Cutts onto the barrel. you will see the choke designated on the barrel and it doesn't have the Cutts base as part of the barrel.


Winchester Factory Cutts are somewhat rare. As tulsey said, generally speaking a Md 12 that has had one ADDED usually drops the price by about half. then again the addition of the standard Simmons rib, means the gun has been REBLUED. So even a Factory installed Cutts gun that has had a Simmons rib installed, is no longer original, thus a shooter classification.

If a person is looking for a Md 12 with a Simmons rib and a Cutts, I can tell you today, Simmons charges almost $400. for thier standard rib installation, a Cutts plus installation $100-$150. But the gun is only a "shooter" not a collectable.

Years ago if one "bulged" there barrel forward of the magazine tube, the quickest and cheapest method to fix it was to have it cut off and install a Cutts or Poly choke. This was cheaper than sending the gun back to the factory for a new barrel or taking it to an authorized gunsmith that Winchester allowed to do this job.

Again choke devices don't appeal to everyone, nor do Simmons ribs. But considering the cost of doing it today, it's cheaper to find one already done, than to do it today. You certainly aren't going to hurt the gun shooting steel shot out of it.

Again knowing what it costs to have a rib installed and a Cutts, $400 isn't a bad price but I certainly wouldn't pay more than that. Perferribly less.

Regards to all!

Dave


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 Post subject: re: Winchester Model 12 w- Cutts
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:47 am 
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As Only Winch. points out....factory installed units are rare.

The man above can correct me if I'm wrong but the factory installed models can be verified as they have no choke designation on the barrel.

AND....If you ask some of the old-timers....the other way is that the factory installed units don't come loose!

Might be worth looking at that barrel before you buy.


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 Post subject: re: Winchester Model 12 w- Cutts
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:21 am 
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Only Winchester is correct on the factory Cutts availability. Winchester was not the only one who had them. Remington also offered the Cutts as a factory option at one time. The Cutts and Simmons rib treatment must have been a popular aftermarket at one time. I have an Ithica Model 37 that has both and I suspect Simmons put both on at the same time. The Cutts was available years ago in both steel and aluminum bodies with steel or aluminum choke tubes from 12ga down to .410 bore. They were the in thing for skeet shooters..


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