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 Post subject: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:10 pm 
Tournament Grade
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:07 am
Posts: 173
Location: Belgrade, Montana
Hey guys,

Quite some time ago marland researched a flues for me and we came to the conclusion that it was a grade 1, I was just looking at gunsamerica.com and found my shotgun, it must be a 1 1/2. All of the 1 1/2's have the same large leafy engraving. I was told by a guy here that it was simply a 1 with some aftermarket engraving, but it mathches these photos perfectly. The only difference that I can tell is that on my forarm there is a round button that must be pushed to release the forarm. Non of the other photos show this feature, also mine has auto ejectors where the others didn't. So now that I believe I have a 1 1/2 what might this be worth? i can get ser#'s if you need. BTW: hammerless, auto ejectors, double triggs, fluid steel barrels.

There are pics of other 1 1/2's at gunsamerica.com/guns/976386764.htm

Thanks,
Chad

Still colder than HECK in Montana...But the geese are everywhere! Bang!.....Dead bird!

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:07 am
Posts: 173
Location: Belgrade, Montana
Hi again,

In addition to my above question, Marland researched a double hammer ithaca for me and we never came up to a solid conclusion. I was looking on gunbroker.com and found a very simillar shotgun (photo) and it was listed as a Lewis model. What are the differences between flues, Lewis, Crass, Baker, Knickerbocker...?

What might I look for on my mule ear?

That one Lewis Model is at:
gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=13269132

Thanks,
Chad

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 1:00 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:53 pm
Posts: 8661
Location: Padua IL
Ithaca doubles incorporated a number of design changes made on the action - they are referred to as the Lewis, Crass, Flues, and Minier frame variations. After that, (about 1926) they became the NID....

Other than that, I'm going to have to step aside for a bit and see who steps up because I was under the impression that the Lewis frame variation was hammerless. Also a Lewis should be bolted through the rib extension....

Stay tuned...

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:51 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:51 am
Posts: 629
Location: Dixie
A Flues model 1 1/2 was a Field grade with a little extra engraving. Ejectors were available for a extra $10.00. On another board, a dicussion involving Field, 1 and 1 1/2,(with "S" thrown in for good measure) went to more than 70 posts, involving Walt Snyder himself, Gregg Tagg, Wilhelm Greggor and others who can only be described as the most expert group to ever discuss an Ithaca. As I recall, no consensus was reached.

The "...broad leafy engraving" and push button forend release are other areas of possible exploration. I have never seen or heard of a push button release on a Flues, nor in reviewing old catalog reprint do I see it as an available option. Leafy engraving indicates a grade Grade 4.

What all this rambling is leading to is that I think you've got a lunch box gun; an employee asking other employees to upgrade his personal gun, one step at a time. Double Gun Journal ran an article on this some time back. There were more than a few.

'Lonzo


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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 10:03 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 1:54 pm
Posts: 69
Location: south central Pennsylvania
Any chance of directing me to the earlier post you described? I just got a 16 ga. Flues and am interested in learning more about them, including being able to figure grade. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:07 am
Posts: 173
Location: Belgrade, Montana
Hey Guys,

I posted some pics of my Ithacas both the flues and the Hammer gun, they are in the Shotgun Album. Maybe this could help!


Thanks

Chad :? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:51 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 1:54 pm
Posts: 69
Location: south central Pennsylvania
Mine has an 'S' above the 16 on the receiver flat by the hinge pin.


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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:07 am
Posts: 173
Location: Belgrade, Montana
Hey,

Lonzo or Marland


Did you happen to take a look at my pics in the shotgun album,
curious if they might help us out with our mystery?

Thanks,

Chad

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:58 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:15 pm
Posts: 61
Location: Florida/Indiana/NewYork
Fluesie's - Sweet handlin doubles...
The posts on DoubleGun have fallen off - Posts only go back to Oct 2, but ya can always make a new post...

I looked at your pics... It's a Flusie, Grade 1 12 Gauge
On the reciever the 1 with the 1 2 under it indicates grade 1 12 Gauge. For the engraqving, there was a few variations. ya'll have to talk to be boys on Double gun for that.

On this board theres another picture of a Flusie(mine), a Grade 1, 12 gauage and mine is marked exactly like yours on the reciever, a 1 with a 12 under it - although mines an earlier one a 1911, with the pointing dog...
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=6233&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
(The link in post used to have a link the big DubbleGun Flues post... just doesnt work anymore)

I like your engraging, don't know if its original or custom...
BUt who who cares,
The best thing about a Flusie is the way they handle!!!
They're possibly he best balanced and handling shotgun ever made! I still prefer mine for bird hunting in corn fields and fence rows over any gun ive ever had or used. They literally point themselves... I've had mine for ~35 years now, its just about 100 yrs old, and i think it might last another hundred...

Ya had yours out shootin? They handle like a dream....


Last edited by BuckshotBob on Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:01 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:15 pm
Posts: 61
Location: Florida/Indiana/NewYork
Here's an example of grade and gauge markes on Flusies...
A grade 1, and a grade S... (in 12 gauage)
Image
Mines the Big en on the left... The grade is upside down in the pic and is a wider thicker guin. The 'S' is the thinner reciever - in this case - but they say thats not always true -???
And the 'S' was undetermined as to exactly what it stands for - Special, Steel barrels, Small, Standard - ????

I'm guessin here, but as they made more perhaps they tried to make them lighter. Some have very thin reciever side walls and have cracked...

And the barrels - both are Fluid Steel barreels...
My earlier Fluese even has thicker barrels walls.... who knows.
Image
Both these guns have extractors - that pop the fired shell up guite a bit so its easy to grab and remove - but i don't think they are ejectors that pop the shell completely out...

ImageImage

Walt said mine left the factory Feb, 1911 as a standard field(Grade 1) special ordered with fluid steel barels. My earlier gun is gun a just a bigger, wider, heavier gun altogether. I don't know, mine might have been worked on sometime before i got it. Its got awfull nice barrels, still mirror inside and NICE blue for a gun its age, and has full 2 3/4" chambers with longer forcing cones than any of my other guns. Smiths that look at it say they can't tell, but if it was it was a good job... Some say flusies came with 2 9/16 or 2 5/8 chambers max... ???

Who knows - each one is a little different. I've knocked a chip out ot the top of my stock and am searching around for a replacement stock. The stockmakers say there just isnt a standard replacement for fluse models - there all a little different and need to be custom fitted... so i'm just having my stock repaired. A local gunsmith says he can repair it, stronger than ever and it will be unnoticable.... I figure that will carry me till 2011 - but in 2011 when she's a 100 years old she's gettin a new stock. She's a good solid tight shootin gun, and for a certury of good service she's gettin new wood all around, even if it cost's a few hundred. I figure 200 to 250 for a good original replacement and balance. Its just too good a shooting gun not to....


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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:55 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:11 pm
Posts: 1
Hey Guys,
I've been told I have a lewis model 12 ga, you all seem to be very knowledgeable on the Ithaca guns, the serial number is 88245.
Do any of you know where I can get a screw that goes through the reciever that holds the stock on, there is two and one of mine is broken, the stock was broken also, not too sad about that, had been shortened at on time and a recoil put on. I have a semi-finished stock coming next week and need to get a screw, bird season has opened here and would like to be able to use it again.
Along with your post, mine also has the S grade stamp. It has nice figure in the grain pattern of the wood, not alot of engraving, has a scroll pattern on each side with Ithaca Hammerless in the banner. Barrels have smokeless powder steel with arrows, and Ithaca Gun Co. on the rib. The only difference I have from your is the odd forearm it has, can get many answers on it. I'll work on putting some pics on here so maybe one of you will have an idea.
Thanks for any info.


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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 6:44 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:51 am
Posts: 629
Location: Dixie
Ithaca's s/n 's 76600-94108 were assigned to Lewis models produced in 1903. Best bet for a screw is to make one. It's not too difficult if you take a minute and study the old one, find another of the same thread and cut/file to duplicate.

Best Luck, 'Lonzo


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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 7:12 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:51 am
Posts: 629
Location: Dixie
Water Dog- Sorry it took so long to get back- had some other things going on. I posted my response to your question before you posted the pictures of the gun. The engraving is, indeed, standard for a grade 1 1/2 Flues. Interestingly, it was carried over to the grade 1 NID. The push button fore end had me going but I found pictures of either a Crass or a Lewis with one which matches your photos. Since the ejectores were a special order addition, let's assume your gun was ordered with both. In those days, you could specify about anything and, for a price, they'd do it.

'Lonzo


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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:03 pm 
Tournament Grade
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:07 am
Posts: 173
Location: Belgrade, Montana
Lonzo,

Thanks for your replies,


So now that we think we know what it is what do you figure it may be worth?

Also did you happen to see the pictures of my hammer gun what do you think it is?

Thanks again,

Chad

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Flues 1 1/2 grade?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:36 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:51 am
Posts: 629
Location: Dixie
Water Dog- I'm not qualified to appraise the value of a gun and if I were I couldn't do it from pictures on the internet. There are simply too many variables which are impossible to access with out the gun in hand.

The hammer gun, #85581, is, as the engraving on the action tells you, a New Ithaca Gun. It was made in 1903 on the reinrorced frame introduced in 1897 to withstand the pressure of nitro powders. The reinfocement is the "boss", or raised portion around the standing breech and the water table.

It looks to be in rough condition:

1) Lots of rust and some pitts
2) No case colors
3) Lever left of center
4) Hammers out of alignment

I don't know that I'd spend alot on it.

Best Wishes, 'Lonzo


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