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 Post subject: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:02 pm 
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Hi folks, I was wondering about the maximun distance a number 7 1/2 or 8 lead shotgun pellet starting out at 1200 FPS would travel? I know in the years past I have seen a table somewhere that told this information, but I can't find it now.


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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:22 am 
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mtgrs737,
Lymans 4th Edition Shotshell Reloading Manual lists maximum ranges of the different size pellets on page 132.

At 1200 FPS a #7 1/2 will travel 237 yards horizontally, and a #8 will travel 230 yards.

Standard fallout distance requirements recommended by the NRA Shotgun Range construction manual is 300 Yards.

DLM

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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:23 am 
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Journee's principle will get you very close, but not exact. Journee found that multiplying the diameter of a pellet in inches by 2200 will give the maximum range in yards. For example, a #6 pellet is .11 x 2200 = 242 yards. A #7.5 pellet is .095 x 2200 = 209 yards.

Again, this is a pretty good approximation that works regardless of velocity.

Frank


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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:45 am 
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Thanks guys! I knew someone out there would know the answer to this.


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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:53 am 
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Kinda depends on what angle you aim. Like with water, it has a specific gravity of 1, it is the standard by which all other elements are compared. Water travels farther at a 27 degree angle than any other angle. Higher than 27 and it arcs up and falls closer, lower than that, it hits the ground closer too. I suspect lead and pellet size makes a difference too, but I bet angle of discharge will make a LOT of difference too.

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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:15 am 
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BP,
You are absolutely correct, and these figures are based at launching the shot at the optimum angle to get the longest distance possible.

And right again, the heaver the shot, the farther it will travel. For instance #4 shot launched at 1200 FPS will travel approx. 294 feet.

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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:52 am 
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Quote:
For instance #4 shot launched at 1200 FPS will travel approx. 294 feet.
???????

Looking at it a different way, when Gene Sears comes in to reclaim shot on a trap range, they work the area alot harder around 220-240 yards. There is some beyond, and some before, but that is the highest concentration available. Of course, angle comes into play here as well.

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 Post subject: Re: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:00 pm 
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Frank Lopez wrote:
Journee's principle will get you very close, but not exact. Journee found that multiplying the diameter of a pellet in inches by 2200 will give the maximum range in yards. For example, a #6 pellet is .11 x 2200 = 242 yards. A #7.5 pellet is .095 x 2200 = 209 yards.

Again, this is a pretty good approximation that works regardless of velocity.

Frank


What if that .11" pellet were traveling at 40,000 ft/sec? I am pretty sure it would fly farther than 242 yards. Journee had to base his math on a single assumed velocity for all his projectiles. At 40,000 ft/sec, that pellet would travel 242 yards in .018 seconds.

Even fired at 0-degrees, 2 feet off the ground, gravity still would not act on it fast enough to bring it to the ground before or at 242 yards.

I would be curious to know what his assumed velocity was. The math to calculate trajectory, wind resistance and whatnot is VERY complicated.

-Jason


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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:18 pm 
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Jason,

Journee's expirements were conducted in the early part of the 20th century, using common shotgun loads. Back then, there were still a lot of black powder cartridges available, but I suspect that he tested bulk, as well as smokeless loads. What Journee discovered was that regardless of the velocity (again, we're talking commonly attainable velocities) the pellets would fall at the range predicted by the formula (within an acceptable margin of error) regardless of velocity. What he actually proved is that the aerodynamics of the little "lead balloons" is pretty poor and that the faster you start them off, the faster they slow down.

Get hold of a ballistics program and analyze some calculations for black powder round ball projectiles. And keep in mind that these results are derived from formula that were developed empirically and that the round ball has an axial spin that helps stabilize it and adds to its max range. Any realistic differences in velocity will have little effect on the maximum range of a round projectile.

While it may be possible to propell a shotgun load at 1500fps or greater, I suspect that it would have little effect on max range due to aerodynamics.

Frank


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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:22 pm 
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Well Jason, all that supposition is just meaningless drivel. What in heaven's name does 40,000 fps have to do with shotguns? Actually, at that speed the projectile will probably escape the earth's gravitational pull and go into orbit. That 40,000 fps figures out to about 27,272.727272 MILES per hour.

I bet that would be difficult to figure. At that velocity the lead is very likely to vaporize and it would NEVER hit the ground again anyway. :roll:

BP

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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:06 pm 
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Burnt Powder - you had the same thought that I had. As soon as I read the 40,000 FPS number I converted it to MPH and yes, neglecting the air resistance that would both slow it down and probably vaporize it, 40K FPS is 10% faster than the Earth's escape velocity. That little pellet would be out in solar orbit! Now that would be one long-distance shot.

"See you later, honey. I'm gonna go bag me a comet or two."


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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:09 am 
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Go to www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com Then on the left side under Downloads, click on Shotgun Statistic's. It is a chart showing the distance shot travels and also other data. Good reference data to have. V/R TonyG


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 Post subject: Re: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:14 am 
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Burnt Powder wrote:
Well Jason, all that supposition is just meaningless drivel. What in heaven's name does 40,000 fps have to do with shotguns? Actually, at that speed the projectile will probably escape the earth's gravitational pull and go into orbit. That 40,000 fps figures out to about 27,272.727272 MILES per hour.

I bet that would be difficult to figure. At that velocity the lead is very likely to vaporize and it would NEVER hit the ground again anyway. :roll:

BP


I was making a comical observation about the statement made earlier in the thread.

Of course we are talking about practical velocities. :roll: Probably at or less than 1200fps at the muzzle.

And no, it would not leave Earth's orbit. That is 24,000mph initial. It would have to sustain that speed to leave orbit.

Some people take stuff way too seriously and just leap at the opprotunity to bash someone's post on a thread.

-Jason


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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:55 am 
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Quote:
Some people take stuff way too seriously and just leap at the opprotunity to bash someone's post on a thread.


Jason,

My apologies if you thought I was bashing your note.

Craig


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 Post subject: Re: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:57 am 
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craig110 wrote:
Quote:
Some people take stuff way too seriously and just leap at the opprotunity to bash someone's post on a thread.


Jason,

My apologies if you thought I was bashing your note.

Craig


I know my 40,000fps number was out there. It's cool. Forums wouldn't be forums without disagreement.

-Jason


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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:18 am 
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Well Jason, welcome to Shotgun World. If you want to blow smoke, bet there will be a fire hose somewhere close. Yes, I do take this stuff seriously, have been for over 40 years. Probably why I still have my face, eyes, and fingers! I too can be a bit subtle in my humor. Just like the 40,000 fps thing! :wink:

BP

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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:43 am 
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Yes, welcome Jason. Again, my apologies. I agree with BP -- some people are subtle and I thought you were tossing out the 40,000 fps number as a subtle joke.


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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:03 pm 
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Jason;

Just to be provocative, it would take 24,000 MPH to leave earth's gravitational pull and enter orbit, not to leave orbit! :wink:

BP

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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:08 pm 
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Provocative: Burnt Powder, when you look in the dictionary for the word provocative; you will fine your picture. Man I bet it would be a blast to set with you in a duck all day. I don't think there would be much shooting. But, I could say at the end of the day, "Damn, I had a good time". You are great!!


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 Post subject: re: Shotgun Pellet Distance Table
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:31 pm 
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Burnt Powder,

Sorry, but nope. I'm sure you'd agree that the Shuttle achieves orbit and yet it only travels at 17,500 mph. The 24,000 mph threshold is what it takes to transfer the object's predominant gravitational influence from the earth and go into solar orbit.

I suspect you are using "leave earth's gravitational pull" to mean lifting off from the ground. That's improper as anything in orbit is still within the gravitational pull of the predominant body it is orbiting. (While in orbit, for example, the Shuttle is always falling due to the earth's gravity. It is just that the sideways motion offsets the falling.) The common notion of leaving earth's gravitational pull is also improper, of course, as the earth's gravitational pull extends to infinity. What the phrase actually means is that the body is far enough away from the earth, and close enough to another body, such as the moon or the sun, for that other body to become the long-term predominant gravitational influence.

At the risk of being stuffed into a 10ga shell and fired off this board, I'll stop here and just whisper something: astrophysics is fun! :D


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