CalendarCalendar   Photos  * FAQ
It is currently Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:59 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:09 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:12 pm
Posts: 192
Location: Wet Side of Washington
Newbie question here. I am looking for a comprehensive listing stating wad cross references. Such as the CB-2100-12 which replaces the Fed 12SO.

I scanned the past 50 pages of this forum and did not see any listed material other than a few manufacturers web sites such as Down Range.

If one does not excist maybe I have to start compiling my info and building an Excel spread sheet.




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:23 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:56 am
Posts: 551
Location: Titusville, Florida
So you are looking for generic/brand name equivalency charts? If so, just look at their websites. Claybuster, Trapper, Downrange, etc. all publish their own equivalency information.

-Jason


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:27 pm 
Reloading Expert
Reloading Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 16101
Location: Kearney NE
NO they don't!

Some wad manufacturers just tell you to consult your powder manufacturers loading guide. Some are very detailed in their data and others just tell you to reference some other big name wad or other.

BP

_________________
A wife and a steady job have ruined many'a good biker!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:41 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:58 pm
Posts: 7160
Location: Eastern Oklahoma
scorge30 wrote:
I am looking for a comprehensive listing stating wad cross references.

Save yourself some time and effort.

Such a list doesn't exist -- anywhere.

_________________
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:48 pm 
Reloading Expert
Reloading Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 16101
Location: Kearney NE
Case;

WELL, now! That isn't exactly true! I have some old MEC charge bar data and old Alcan data as well as data with an old Lee Loader. All wads were seperated into two classifications. Either overpowder cards and filler wads or one piece plastic wads. i.e. WW AA and RP Power Pistons and Federal Pushin Cushions. They seemed to suggest any and all plastic one piece wads were the same. I wonder, has that changed? :?

:wink:

That ought to be fairly comprehensive, wouldn't you think?

BP

_________________
A wife and a steady job have ruined many'a good biker!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:18 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 9:19 am
Posts: 1662
Location: Columbia, SC
Burnt Powder wrote:
Case;

WELL, now! That isn't exactly true! I have some old MEC charge bar data and old Alcan data as well as data with an old Lee Loader. All wads were seperated into two classifications. Either overpowder cards and filler wads or one piece plastic wads. i.e. WW AA and RP Power Pistons and Federal Pushin Cushions. They seemed to suggest any and all plastic one piece wads were the same. I wonder, has that changed? :?

:wink:

That ought to be fairly comprehensive, wouldn't you think?

BP


I have some of that old data too. When I see some people getting all worked up about following the "recipe" to the letter I just remember back to the "old" days. Remember when the powder charge was specified for each of four basic combinations:

paper base wad hull w/ over powder wad and built up wad column
paper base wad hull w/ one piece plastic wad
plastic base wad or compression formed hull w/ over powder wad and built up wad column
plastic base wad or compression formed hull w/ one piece plastic wad

and they just specified a "primer"

Sometimes they gave one recipe for the paper base wad w/ built up wad column and just said to reduce your powder charge 10% if you used the one piece plastic wad.

Funny thing - there were no more accidents than today.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:39 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:12 pm
Posts: 192
Location: Wet Side of Washington
I appreciate the input so far, like anything opinions vary.

One of the reasons I asked is because I have been following and loading BPIs products religiously but they are getting pricey. Dont mind paying a little more when I am loading specialty waterfowling loads, but for general non-tox hunting perhaps there are better deals?

Mostly been loading the BP12 Tuff + BPGS, Multi-Metal 10 ga and 12 ga and BPGS + BP12.

The Financial Officer has started asking some questions when she frequently sees BPI on the cc statement. She has been showing me EBay listings. Now I had to school her a little on what kind of wads I wanted (ie for steel, not lead or trap shooting), but she still has a point.

Now I know the hazards of EBay but the wife does make a valid point. If it were possible to buy a case of 4000 of (insert wad name) at some of the low prices seen on EBay and they were equivalent to say the BPI multi-metal without BPIs somewhat stiff price her point is valid.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:57 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 9:19 am
Posts: 1662
Location: Columbia, SC
BP seems expensive on everything.

The first time I got a catalog - many years ago - I compared their prices with others and tossed their catalog in the circular file. I've never ordered anything from them since.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:50 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:15 am
Posts: 335
You MAY well be able to get by substituting wads in recipes, but as I have been wrestling with the question of what wads to settle on as standard, I've noticed that in the same hull it is not unusual for listed pressures to vary by up to 2000 psi for loads of the same shot oz and velocity.

Just for myself, I tend to view the load that gives the lowest pressure for a given combo of 'ingredients' to be the 'best'. To me, I've just got more of a safety margin and this makes me a happier camper.

As an aside, when did the makers, etc. go to psi instead of the old lup? When strain gauges took over from 'crush' equipment?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:10 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 6743
Location: E. Rochester NY
AAAAaaaah, NUTS!

You guys are mixing apples and bananas.

What the Lee instructions did was take the lowest pressure vs. powder loadings they could find for ANY shell/wad column or plastic wad (or for paper shells/wad column or plastic wads) and use that one to recommend.

Was it safe? You bet. Did it give you the best load performance or stated velocities for the load?? - THAT is very doubtful.

If you want about the most complete list for domestic wads and the largest listing of equivalents, Hodgdon has a pretty complete list in the data listings in the front of their shotgun section of their reloading manual.

Does it contain European stuff or other exotics - NO!

But it is reasonably complete for 95% of us, and lists the wads we normally buy and use!

BobK

_________________
BobK


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:36 pm 
Reloading Expert
Reloading Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 16101
Location: Kearney NE
BobK;;

IF you couldn't figure it out, I was being 1/2 way facetious. 1/2 way serious too though.

What makes you so sure about what LEE was or was not doing with their load data? Now, tell me what Alcan and MEC were doing? :roll:

BP

_________________
A wife and a steady job have ruined many'a good biker!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:59 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 6743
Location: E. Rochester NY
A machine that builds reloading equipment cannot be depended on to give you good, reliable shotgun loads - that takes a POWDER manufacturer! They are the ones who manufacture the powders and have to meet pressure tests from a safety viewpoint.

If you use too small diameter of a wad, as was allowed under the Lee booklet, you could have powder migrate forward, into the shot, to name just ONE example.

That's why the powder manufacturers have pressure tests and list wads and all parameters of the loads.

If you like underpowered loads, just keep following the Lee loader instructions.

BobK

_________________
BobK


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:11 pm 
Reloading Expert
Reloading Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 16101
Location: Kearney NE
BobK

Tell that to all the folks who have the Lyman shotgun shell loading book. It is still the standard by which all shotgun loading procedures and loads are judged. Lyman doesn't make powder, last time I checked. Ever heard of Alcan, or MEC for that matter?

Your comment about wads doesn't hold any water either. You must have never studied any data from the POWDER manufacturers? They all list load data for the wrong wads in the wrong hulls and I guess the pressure listing in the books is all fictitious, they make it up as they see fit?

Your comment just doesn't hold water. Do and believe what you want to.

In case you didn't know, the folks who make pressure testing equipment don't have a policy where they only sell to Powder manufacturers. There are many other places that have the equipment to do just that, develop and test loads. What do you think the folks at Duster, Claybuster, Downrange, and Windjammer do?

BP

_________________
A wife and a steady job have ruined many'a good biker!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:55 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 6743
Location: E. Rochester NY
Well, the Lyman Guide was good, but it is outdated. By the way, the majority (if not all) of the loads listed there came right from the powder manufacturer's old data books. I know, as I looked them up (when my Lyman book was brand new).

As to the wad "clone"manufacturers, they only list their data if it is different from the wad which it is made to replace. Most bags today say "use the same data as (name and number of original ammo co.wad)

But since we can't agree, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

I am not getting drawn to a peeing contest to see just who can get the last word in, that's just not too bright.

I'm outa this thread.

BobK

_________________
BobK


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:25 am 
Reloading Expert
Reloading Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 16101
Location: Kearney NE
BYE! :wink:

BP

_________________
A wife and a steady job have ruined many'a good biker!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:03 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:08 pm
Posts: 680
Location: lapine oregon
the question, is where can you buy these steel shot wad clones( other than ebay) to pay the only manufacturer of them in some reloading books .11cents to .16cents each for wads is not going to happen. i know some are patented but not all of them are protected. using these overpriced wads, it costs nearly .30 cents for each shell using steel shot. if you watch the sales i can buy them cheaper. or using light weight loads in regular wads, may be an option, if there was data. i like the ww12r wad. if i could find data for this wad, at least i could have a cheaper load to use.

_________________
oha life member, lapine oregon. http://www.oregonhunters.org/ join today


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:33 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:05 pm
Posts: 1792
Location: Kerrville TX
A couple of years ago "Claybuster" used a full page ad in magazines that pictured their wads and told what each one was eqivalent to. I clipped it out and saved it, I would bet that the same would be available on their website.....Jack

_________________
See bird, Kill bird


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Comprehensive shotgun wad cross reference source?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:13 am 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm
Posts: 8868
Location: Alvin, Texas
baltz526,

The makers of the wads for lead hunting and target loads do not make clones of any Steel shot wads. This would include Claybuster, Downrange, Duster, PC, Windjammer, or any other that I may have missed.

Reason is that there isn't enough market for them to be a profitable item to manufacture and distribute.

In the scheme of things, a very small percentage of non-toxic ammo is reloaded by individuals because of the small amount of such loads used yearly. It's simply easier to buy a few boxes of the ammo each year, and forget about reloading it.

You are for the most part stuck with Ballistic Products Inc, and Precision Reloading, for Non-toxic components. Like it or not, that's about all the choices you have, if you are going to reload non-toxic shotshells.


DLM



_________________
DLM


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 737Mech, Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], Obe-Wan, Skydancer, smlekid, tinyiota, TonyLC


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group     -  DMCA Notice