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 Post subject: Help! Side-by-side slug gun shooting very high from POA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:38 am
Posts: 5
Greetings everyone! My name is Nick, I am a 22 year old man from Bulgaria, this is my first post on your wonderful forum.
It all started when I got my hunting license last summer.
I inherited my late grandfather's side-by-side 12ga shotgun.
A Baikal IJ 58M, of course before the start of the hunting season I bought a couple of brands of slugs and went out to see what accuracy I can get out of the gun at 50 yards.

I was using shooting sticks, I have to mention here the right barrel was half-choke and the left was full choke. You can probably already predict what happened to the barrels some time after the shooting session and what led to the problem mentioned in the title of this post. But I am getting ahead of myself here.

I fired one slug out of each barrel with the right barrel hitting the bullseye with Remington slugger 3/4oz. slug and another Bulgarian made Brenneke style slug hitting slightly to the right of it. All was good so far with the exception that the shots from the full choked left barrel where not hitting the paper at all, I tried 5 different brands of slugs and none impacted the paper target at 50 yards.
This disappointed me greatly due to not wanting to use buckshot from the left barrel I was essentially left with a 'double-barreled single shot' of sorts.
After a lot of thinking and reading on the internet I decided to chop the barrels down to 24 inches to remove the chokes and turn it into a slug gun.
I hacksawed the barrels to 24" soldered the gap between the barrels polished the muzzles it looked all nice and pretty with the exception that I didn't square off the muzzle ends which at the time I thought was no big deal but it turned out to be a huge problem.
Fast forward into the hunting season I missed 3 does with that gun two of which at laughable distances no more than 25 yards away while they where standing still.
I would've come to the conclusion that I'm just a bad shot otherwise, but I have shot a hare at 50 yards with and AK-47 platform rifle using iron sights the FMJ bullet impacted the hare exactly halfway down the neck.
So by that I knew I ruined the shotgun.
I have to mention here that one of the shots I was squatting down to rest my legs after standing up for 2 hours at a driven hunt and exactly the moment I did that 2 does came in from my left side, being afraid that I may scare them if I get up I fired from that position and I could clearly see the slug impacting the dirt 15-16 inches above the doe's shoulder essentially jumping over her but otherwise going in a straight line with her shoulder.
Recently after getting advice from a very competent gunsmith I filed and polished the muzzle ends square and true to the bores.
I went out and tried the gun at 50 yards again using shooting sticks, the best group I got was with a local brand of Brenneke style Mini-Magnum 1oz. slugs.
Both barrels put slugs inside a 5 1/2 circle consistently.
I was very happy the gun was accurate again.
Unfortunately it turned out to be not, two weeks after that I fired at a wild boar about 20 yards away from me while I was sitting on a rock waiting for game to show near a muddy pond where they usually wallow. I fired the right barrel at the pig's shoulder and the exact same thing happened as with the doe, I saw the slug fly in a straight line going exactly where I aimed but jumping 15-16 inches above the animal smashing into the hill behind it.
This leads me to think that my sitting shooting position is changing the recoil dynamics and is one the three (perhaps more?) possible reasons making the slugs fly high that I can think of.
The other being increased muzzle rise/flip due to the now much shorter and lighter barrel, and finally the slug is too slow and too heavy and the recoil hits me and throws the barrels up before the slug has exited the bore.
Or perhaps it's a combination of all three factors?
Do you think the gun is salvageable, or should I just get a single barreled slug gun?

Thank you very much for going through this lengthy text!
Nick




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 Post subject: Re: Help! Side-by-side slug gun shooting very high from POA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:57 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 4676
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
So, if I am reading this right, the gun is shifting it's POI. What are you using for sights? You have to have adjustable sights to sight anything in. If you were a reloader you could try a round ball. Another option would be to have aftermarket choke tubes installed. Rifled tubes are available here from Briley. Then you could change things at will. It is hard enough to get a double rifle regulated to fire both barrels to the same (or close to it) POI. You are very lucky if it happens with a smooth bore shotgun. You can play around with different loads & try to find two that will shoot close to the same place when fired from the opposite barrel. You can also load one barrel with a slug & the other with buckshot, but since you already cut the barrels off, you may not get decent buckshot patterns from the cylinder choke.


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 Post subject: Re: Help! Side-by-side slug gun shooting very high from POA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:19 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:38 am
Posts: 5
Hello geometric and thanks for the reply.
I have a thin blade front sight that I installed no rear sight.
It is great for longer range it doesn't obscure the target like a bead sight.
The whole mystery is that the gun is accurate at 50 yards when I'm shooting standing up from the sticks, I get 5 1/2 inch group which I consider good enough for big game at 50 yards. But when I shoot from closer range 20-25 yards and from a sitting or squatting position it shoots really high yet still in the line I was aiming but very high.
The pattern with buckshot is indeed horrible and I don't want to use buckshot anyhow. Installing choke tubes would cost way more than the gun itself so it's not really an option.


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 Post subject: Re: Help! Side-by-side slug gun shooting very high from POA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:16 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 4676
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Wow! That is really strange. One of your shooting positions appears to be changing the bullets vertical flight path. It is well known that the type of rest or shooting position can change POI but I never heard of it changing that much! I would try shooting at both ranges with your shooting sticks & then again in the sitting position & see what happens. Is the gun on face, or in other words, does it lock up tight when you close it?


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 Post subject: Re: Help! Side-by-side slug gun shooting very high from POA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:38 am
Posts: 5
Yes the barrels are tight on face.
I was about to go to the same place where I shot at the boar set up a target where the pig was and shoot from the rock I was sitting on, to replicate the conditions from that evening, but other business got in the way, I think I will be able to try it soon.
I really need to get this thing sorted out before the hunting season starts. An inaccurate gun like that completely takes the pleasure and joy out of hunting and fills you with anxiety and fear everytime you shoulder it to fire at game.


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 Post subject: Re: Help! Side-by-side slug gun shooting very high from POA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:23 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 3622
Location: Western Tampa, FL
You need to do as you indicated you want to try. Shoot it from the same location and in same position as before. That should tell the tale. I would also try it while there, from a standing position. Your answer should be revealed quickly. Good luck and keep us posted!


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 Post subject: Re: Help! Side-by-side slug gun shooting very high from POA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:54 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:38 am
Posts: 5
Hey oyeme, thanks for stopping by, I'll try it and keep you guys updated!


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 Post subject: Re: Help! Side-by-side slug gun shooting very high from POA
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:26 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:38 am
Posts: 5
Hey guys, so I managed to try the gun today at the same place reenacting the situation from that evening.
I set the target close to the ground at 27 yards exactly where the boar was standing, went back to the rock sat on it and fired at the bullseye, as I approached the target I couldn't see the slug on paper but when I looked closely I saw that it had chopped the stick I had the target tacked on in half, flying in a straight line but impacting 12.5in high from POA. Next I fired another shot standing up from the same spot and this time the slug hit at the same level of the bullseye but 2 inches left from it, I am quite certain I flinched and that threw it a bit left.
For whatever reason perhaps due to muzzle rise due to the 24in barrel, the gun is shooting about 12.5in high from POA if you are firing from a sitting, squatting,kneeling position.

Mystery solved,lesson learned,
I'll only shoot that gun from a standing up position from now on.
Thanks for following along!
Nick


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 Post subject: Re: Help! Side-by-side slug gun shooting very high from POA
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:20 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:26 pm
Posts: 478
Location: Sussex Co. New Jersey
First thing you should do, is install some adjustable sights.


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 Post subject: Re: Help! Side-by-side slug gun shooting very high from POA
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:23 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 3622
Location: Western Tampa, FL
old ammo wrote:
First thing you should do, is install some adjustable sights.


^^^^^This^^^^^ Will make a load of difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Help! Side-by-side slug gun shooting very high from POA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:29 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:28 pm
Posts: 247
It's all about muzzle flip due to recoil. Period.


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 Post subject: Re: Help! Side-by-side slug gun shooting very high from POA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:03 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 4676
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
So, what is the other barrel doing?


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 Post subject: Re: Help! Side-by-side slug gun shooting very high from POA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:05 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 4676
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
So, what is the other barrel doing?




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