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 Post subject: Patterning Question
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:49 pm
Posts: 8
Brand New 1997 Browning A5. Only a few boxes of ammo total.


Just used this gun to shoot doves. Couldn't hit the ground. Decided to pattern it. (I know, I know.... I should have patterned it BEFORE I hunted with it).


From 25 yards, 99% of the pellets are above the aim point. They are nicely centered from left to right but the "center" of the pattern is a good ten inches or so ABOVE the aim point. I've patterned my Citori, Rem 1100, Rem 870, H&R single barrel, etc... and they all pattern slightly high, perhaps 60/40 but NOT 99/01.

Once I figured out where the A5 was actually throwing the pellets I started dusting skeet handily.


Should I try to change point of impact or leave it alone?

What's the best way to adjust it?

Thoughts?




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 Post subject: re: Patterning Question
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:49 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5344
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Briley makes eccentric choke tubes that will change the point of impact. They will have to install a choke tube system. Maybe it is the barrel. Have you had it checked by a gunsmith? Maybe you need a new barrel or perhaps the one you have can be adjusted. Could it be bent? Is it a problem with the gun or is it gun fit? Gun fit is corrected by adjusting stock dimensions. I could never get along with an A5, but that is just me. Others do very well with them.


Last edited by geometric on Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: Patterning Question
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:35 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:44 pm
Posts: 1725
Location: Lompoc, CA
To lower your point of impact you need to sand off the top of the stock to lower your head in relation to the barrel. Or if your like me, lose a little of that baby fat in the cheek area! LOL...

If you know where the gun is shooting, and your comfortable with it, why change?

One of the members here at Shotgun World installed an adjustable comb and had them trim an extra 1/8 inch off so he could lower his point of impact.

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 Post subject: re: Patterning Question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:52 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 5607
Location: Brillion, WI-25 mls S of Green Bay
You, like I, suffer from low cheekbones (possibly the result of our ancestors at one time or another, trying to mate with a sheep - sheep also have low cheekbones.)

An alternative to lowering the comb by removing wood, is the installation of an add-on rib. This raises the rib rather than lowers the comb. It amounts to the same thing.

This is useful however, only if you are looking down onto the rib rather than looking along its surface. http://www.moneymaker.com is well known for good, add-on ribs that are available in various heights.

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Rollin

Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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 Post subject: re: Patterning Question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:03 pm 
Gunsmith
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Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 2:46 pm
Posts: 1141
Location: Backus, MN
You didn't say what choke you were using to do the patterning. If a full was used, then it would be highly likely that most of the pellets would be high of the aiming point.

What's more important than the overal paterrn height, is where is the center of the pattern in relationship to you aiming point.

I've had many shooters tell me their gun shoots 100% high at "such and such" yardage, generally 20 t0 30 yards, because all of the pellets were above the aiming point, with most times the full choke in the gun.

If everything is functioning properly, patterning with a full choke or less, the center of the pattern should not change, only the diameter of the pattern. As the pattern opens up with a lesser choke, some ofthe pellets will move below the aiming point.

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Doug Braker

[email protected]
www.dougsgunsmithshop.com


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 Post subject: re: Patterning Question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:40 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:49 pm
Posts: 8
Let me clarify.

Browning A5/ 30" barrel / Modified choke

AIMING straight down the rib, through the bead at a one inch dot drawn on large construction paper. The one inch dot on the paper just visible over the top of the bead as I AIM carefully..... like with a rifle..... looking straight down the top of the rib. (You can imagine how high it shoots if I don't get my head down all the way and look straight down the rib)

The center of the pattern is approx a foot high at 25 yards and the very bottom of the pattern touches the one inch dot aim point. Basically, 99% of the pattern is high. Dead center from left to right but HIGH.

If I put my head any lower I would not even be able to see the front bead.


I was thinking of getting one of those fiber optic sights and attaching it to the muzzle end of the rib near the bead since they sit up a little higher and may help me get the pattern lower.

Even If I bend the mag tube down a little it wont help the problem.

If it was shooting low it would be an easy fix. Just put a check pad on the stock so I couldn't lower my head but so much and it would take care of itself.


Thoughts?


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 Post subject: re: Patterning Question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:53 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:31 pm
Posts: 2434
Borrow an MOD choke tube from a friend and see if that tube is any better. I do believe that have screw in tubes. There is a possibility that the choke tube or barrel was cut badly. I suppose you could shoot it without a tube and see how it patterns at 16 yards. If it's a tube problem that's easy to rectify.

I think you have these options: (1) sell and buy another, (2) purchase new barrel, (3) bend existing barrel, (4) make it a close queen


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 Post subject: re: Patterning Question
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:27 pm 
Gunsmith
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:40 am
Posts: 906
Location: St. Louis area
Those that have seen my previous posts would understand that there is a common situation of the threaded choke holes being off-line of the bore from the factories, and many times I have also seen crooked holes from gunshop installs with sloppy attitudes.
Precision fit and straight chokes is my specialty, and have much better chance cutting off a crooked hole and re-installing a straight hole, than a situation where an install is done by someplace (or maker) that doesn't use care and precision.

(I would never recommend bending a vent-rib barrel with fixed post connections. A floating rib barrel may be able to withstand slight bending, but the ribs of Browning and Remington may buckle between the posts if forced, for example.)

The first rude example that drove home the point was almost 23 years ago, when a factory barrel brought to me was shooting 11" high at 19 yards in the tests performed with the shooter.
It took the factory repair facility 6 months to provide a barrel off half as much, which was still too much for the shooter.

Oftentimes I will cut a bad choke hole off and test fire the barrel to verify that the rib and bore coincide, so then I know that my straight choke installation will be on target. Sometimes a barrel will print low or a bit to the side, but a little high or flat is best for most shooters. A little off is not a big problem for the open choke barrel of a double, but not good for the second shot. That should be as close as possible.

Does anyone have trouble seeing that this factory choke hole is off-center?

Image


This picture is of custom choke installations from a while back, and demonstrate the ability to do long choke tube custom installations in very thin barrels that other shops are unable to accommodate.

Image

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 Post subject: re: Patterning Question
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:16 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 28429
Location: Missouri
1. Buy another barrel. $300 and up. (But it might be the same thing)

2. Pay some pro like our talented Kirby to fix it (It's a late model A-5. I'm trying to buy one for $450 and the pawn shop owner wants $550. It's been there a year and a half. Good gunsmiths are good lawyers. Not cheap)

3. Try bending the barrel up a bit. (Did you hear what Kirby said? He knows. This ain't some old pawn shop plain barrel 11-48 here. Ruin the barrel and it's $300 bucks and up for one of those barrels.)

4. Float the bird. A lot. (And what happens when we don't shoot skeet?)

Choices 4 and 2 make the most sense.

I would try 4, then 3, fail, have to choose 1, and might wind up having to use Kirby anyway. :lol:

Either shoot it like it shoots, or have a pro fix it. :wink:




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