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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:38 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 3606
Location: Dallas, TX
Ulysses wrote:
You guys are just a bunch of panty-waisted wusses who have no sense of adventure. :wink: :D

You're so right, it's like the violins come out when someone mentions hacking the barrel off an old gun.

I'm eyeing that old 20ga full-choked Savage Model 30 in the corner there...




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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:15 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 448
Location: Illinois
OK, tried to stay out of this, but here goes: buy, borrow, beg, or steal a brake cylinder hone. attack the bbl from the muzzle end insert it to the depth to where the stones are parallel with the bore, you don't want to create a reverse cone. Lube the stones with a light oil, wd40, kerosene, remember exactly the position of the stones as to depth in the bore. Turn on the drill, slowly push into the bore1/2 inch or so, pull back out to original position, repeat several times keeping the stones lubricated. Give it 5 or 6 cycles, check with calipers and proceed to the diameter you want. Cheap and dirty, you don't have to cut and worry about refacing the muzzle.


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:58 am 
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wkd wrote:
OK, tried to stay out of this, but here goes: buy, borrow, beg, or steal a brake cylinder hone. attack the bbl from the muzzle end insert it to the depth to where the stones are parallel with the bore, you don't want to create a reverse cone. Lube the stones with a light oil, wd40, kerosene, remember exactly the position of the stones as to depth in the bore. Turn on the drill, slowly push into the bore1/2 inch or so, pull back out to original position, repeat several times keeping the stones lubricated. Give it 5 or 6 cycles, check with calipers and proceed to the diameter you want. Cheap and dirty, you don't have to cut and worry about refacing the muzzle.



best idea as of yet :idea:

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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:26 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 3606
Location: Dallas, TX
Great idea. Can I send you my barrel? :-)


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:37 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 3606
Location: Dallas, TX
This might do the trick! Assuming it's flexible:

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/detail ... RR=Y#specs

20 gauge bore diameter - .615
This tool diameter - .625

I like the "beg, borrow or steal" method of obtaining one, though...


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:23 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:24 pm
Posts: 57
This post reminds me of something that happened when I was a kid back in the 50s. My dad got an old beat up break open 12 ga. from a guy he worked with , it was something like a J. C. Higgins or some minor brand. Anyway he thought the full choke was too tight for bird hunting but he didn't have the money to get a gunsmith to open it up so he had my older brother who was handy with mechanical things do the job. My brother used the sandpaper and dowel method, he sanded the bore some by hand and then told my dad to shoot a big cardboard box to see the pattern , dad didn't like it so my brother sanded some more , dad shot the box again and loved the pattern. Because the dowel was off center the pattern looked like a sideways oval, which my dad loved, because my brother used 220 grit sandpaper my dad asked if he was going to smooth out the choke, my brother just gave him a dirty look and said "just shoot it pop and it will smooth out all by itself" and he walked off, my older brother was 12 at the time. My dad shot that gun at pheasants and rabbits for years until it just fell apart.


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:49 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 448
Location: Illinois
DallasCMT wrote:
This might do the trick! Assuming it's flexible:

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/detail ... RR=Y#specs

20 gauge bore diameter - .615
This tool diameter - .625

I like the "beg, borrow or steal" method of obtaining one, though...

:roll: eyes left :lol:
wkd
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Posts: 374
Location: Illinois


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 448
Location: Illinois
DallasCMT wrote:
This might do the trick! Assuming it's flexible:

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/detail ... RR=Y#specs

20 gauge bore diameter - .615
This tool diameter - .625

I like the "beg, borrow or steal" method of obtaining one, though...


Yes they will work but unlike a cyl hone you only have one grit, and are not as flexible so you need to be a little more careful about being straight with the bore.
Sorry but a gave up my shop about 15 years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:31 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 3606
Location: Dallas, TX
wkd, is this the weapon of mass destruction you're referring to?

Image

I can see how that can work if you held the drill stationary and rotated the barrel 1/4 turn as you go. I mean, if it didn't work, I can always remove 2" of barrel back to the next rib mount.

Image

Is this an accurate cross section of a typical choke? I can see the importance of not messing with the bore diameter where the choke begins, but only remove metal in the area shown with the red marks.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:16 am 
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You don't have to rotate the barrel or anything with the brake cylinder hone. It is designed to self align with the bore if you are close. But, don't use a battery powered drill. It will likely need recharging before you get there. They are only designed to even up the surface. And you need to go from ALMOST half of the stones protruding from the barrel to the stones extending back past the parallel section and keep it moving between those two points while spinning. If you don't have a parallel section you're on your own.

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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 448
Location: Illinois
Dallas, what you have pictured is a properly choked bbl profile and the lines you have drawn are the correct objective. Often times however on the older low cost guns the chokes were cone choked, very little to no parallel section. When opening these you don't have much of a guide for your hone. Please realize here that the proper way to do this on any bbl is to use a reamer with a guide bushing, right hand cut, left hand twist, and you are assured of a beautiful finish as well as being concentric with the bore. Another good method is an adjustable reamer with a guide bushing used at the top portion of the shank used from the chamber end one big problem is that you need a lathe or a buddy who does. If you are going to play with more than a couple bbls, I would look into this method. Now finally to answer your question, yes this is the tool you want, make sure it is the right size, they are adjustable, but within a range for different size bores. It will get you where you want to be, just go easy, use plenty of a light lube to flush away the slurry.


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:44 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 3606
Location: Dallas, TX
I really appreciate the feedback and yes I understand the proper way of doing this as compared to the "bubba" method we're discussing. I just figured rotating the barrel while honing might even the variables a bit.

Like the OP, I've considered this off and on, and just may try it.

But first, I'm going to measure the bore and then choke area to see what I'm dealing with. Fortunately, the building I work in has a tool & die shop where the guys are nice enough to loan be some gauges. This one (below) measures ID's in the .600 to .700 range, so it should measure my 20ga .615 bore properly, but maybe not a .592 Full choke. IC should be .005 smaller than the bore diameter, so this gauge will at least tell me when I'm there. It should also tell me if I have a parallel section or not.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:21 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 3606
Location: Dallas, TX
Okay... using that bore gauge, I measured the ID of the barrels of my two old 20 gauge shotguns at various points to determine what type of choke it had, and whether or not it had a parallel plane as some suggested.

Since the measuring tool would only enter 2.9" into the muzzle, that was as deep as I could go for the first reading.

Savage Model 30 Series E 20 gauge, circa 1978

2.90" - .622
2.50" - .622
2.00" - .615
1.75" - .612
1.50" - .610
1.25" - .608
1.00" - .606
0.75" - .605
0.50" - .605
0.25" - .605

Verdict - .017 difference between bore and choke, so is this Modified? There are no obvious choke markings on barrel. If so, I'll leave this one alone! It does have a parallel section as well.

Winchester Model 12, first year production (1912) 20 gauge

2.90" - .613
2.50" - .613
2.00" - .612
1.75" - .612
1.50" - .610
1.25" - .608
1.00" - .605
0.75" - .600
0.50" - .594
0.25" - .592

Verdict - .021 difference, so is this a "Light Full" choke? "Full" is stamped on the barrel, but things have changed in the last 102 years, and the softer steel may have opened up a little. There is no parallel section on this one.

I enjoyed the learning experience and feel better about the guns now. The old Model 12 only gets shot here and there (I did have the chamber opened to 2-3/4") but I do plan to shoot the 36 year old Savage some.

EDIT: I need to pattern these to see if I'm right, but this is not easy living in the city!


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:08 am 
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DallasCMT wrote:


EDIT: I need to pattern these to see if I'm right, but this is not easy living in the city!


Come on, Elm Fork can't be that far away from ya :D

Visited there this March, haven't been that cold in a long time. Rain followed by sleet {hs#

Let's just say it wasn't very busy that day at the dove stations....

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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:33 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 448
Location: Illinois
Thanks for sharing your findings, what you found was no surprise in that bore sizes and choke constriction can vary quite a bit among manufacturers, sometimes within the same make and model. I have always found it interesting that the much touted Model 12 uses a cone choke and yet the cheaper Savage and several others use a gentle taper leading into a parallel choke section. I'm not bashing the model 12, owned quite a few over the years and they were well built but in my opinion should have used a better choking profile.


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:46 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:35 am
Posts: 942
Location: California
Check this spec sheet,you have an improved mod/light full. http://www.colonialarms.com/chokespecs.html

Bobcat


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:52 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 84
Not trying to ruffle the feathers of the buy American bunch but import adjustable reamers are available for about 10 bucks from shars, HF, enco and so on.
What I have done is use a brake cylinder hone and a electric drill and in about 10 to 20 minutes you have the choke you desire. It will be at least as accurate as a factory mossberg barrel from the 60s.


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:49 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 3606
Location: Dallas, TX
Which one have you used on a 20 ga? I couldn't find one online that didn't have a lousy rating. I've got a $200 pump I'd like to open up.


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:35 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 84
I have used a size E from Shars on a 12 guage and seem to work ok. As I recall I had read on the net that a guy broke his american reamer, (cleveland I think) And bought a import from MSH or what ever Enco's parent company is and said it worked better with less chatter. I personally hate these things and use them as last resort. Go very slow with very light cuts and lots of rapid tap and you can get acceptable job out of them.


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 Post subject: Re: barrel cutting - Full choke to Mod?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:57 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:41 pm
Posts: 1
tom626 wrote:
I have an old Mossberg with a fixed full choked barrel. Not worth much at all and not useful to me with a fixed full choke. I was thinking about cutting the barrel a little shorter and attempting to get a modified choke as a result. What I can't figure out is how much to cut off. Calipers can measure the outer edge diameter, but not the diameter a few millimeters inside the barrel to tell me when the constriction is about right for a modified choke.

Any ideas on how to do this?

The other concern is the the rate of constriction (per millimeter) will still be a full chokes rate. So, will the final constriction matter that much? Will it still behave like a full choke? Anyone have any experience (good or bad) doing this?

I won't suggest you to cut the barrel by yourself.You should go to a professional if you want to use this shotgun later.But still f you want to do this yourself then get the https://retailoria.com/chokes-for-pheasant-hunting/choke[/url] tube which you want to use then start cutt a millimeter and check if it is getting fixed or not.Repeat this procedure until you're good to go.




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