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 Post subject: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:41 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:11 am
Posts: 51
Hello,
I have a 89’ japan light 12. The tang screw was really really tight. I removed it with a manual impact driver. However, when I put it back in, the problem still remains. I haven’t fully put the screw back in yet, but I can’t hand tighten the screw enough to have the locking screw cutout line up. It’s almost as if I need an impact driver just to get the screw tight enough for the locking screw. Any ideas on why this is is so tight? And what I can do to not have to use an impact driver every time I disassemble the gun for cleaning? The gun is new to me. This is the first time I’ve taken it apart. Looks as if it’s never been apart.




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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:36 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 2931
Location: Missouri
Art, of Art’s Gunshop, mentions that’s a common occurrence on Miroku Auto-5’s. The good news is you’re unlikely to have to remove the buttstock ever again. You may want to replace the action spring before you brute force it back together.


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:14 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 5942
Location: Newton Kansas
Only take that action completely apart that far about every 15 YEARS, or 10-15,000 rounds.

I'm SERIOUS here.

They do not require a huge amount of cleaning back in there.

_________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:42 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:11 am
Posts: 51
Awesome! Thanks everyone. I’ll probably replace the spring and slap it back together. It doesn’t look as if he ever been removed. And with me not being the original owner I’m not sure how much it’s been shot, but it was dirty! I don’t think it’s been cleaned too much at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:48 pm 
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Posts: 14109
Location: Williamsburg, Virginia
I ran into that once that I remember. Seems to me I recut the threads on the bolt and ran them a little further up the bolt and used blue Loctite. But, my memory isn't what it used to be.

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I do not trust Remington's dating service accuracy. If they were Match.com, you could end up with Nancy Pelosi.


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:40 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:11 am
Posts: 51
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
Only take that action completely apart that far about every 15 YEARS, or 10-15,000 rounds.

I'm SERIOUS here.

They do not require a huge amount of cleaning back in there.


Ok, so I’ve a question, I could be completely wrong here. But wouldn’t you have to remove the tang screw with every cleaning of the action? You have to take the trigger assembly out to remove the bolt correct? Or are you saying you never clean any of that for 10,000 to 15,000 rounds? The bolt, reciever etc.?


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:06 am 
Shotgun Expert
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Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 26015
Location: Plainfield, IL
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
Only take that action completely apart that far about every 15 YEARS, or 10-15,000 rounds.

I'm SERIOUS here.

They do not require a huge amount of cleaning back in there.


You can make that 30,000 rounds or 40 years. My great-grandfather's Model 11 was never completely dis-assembled in his long lifetime, nor was my grandfather's Light 12, nor was my father's standard weight A-5.

Great-grandpa was a market hunter and that Model 11 was the only autoloader he ever had. Grandpa's Light 12 was the only firearm he ever had. Dad eventually became a collector, but for 40 years his standard weight A-5 was the only shotgun he hunted with every year. None of them ever had the butt-stocks removed.

_________________
--Randy

http://randywakeman.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:19 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:11 am
Posts: 51
RandyWakeman wrote:
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
Only take that action completely apart that far about every 15 YEARS, or 10-15,000 rounds.

I'm SERIOUS here.

They do not require a huge amount of cleaning back in there.


You can make that 30,000 rounds or 40 years. My great-grandfather's Model 11 was never completely dis-assembled in his long lifetime, nor was my grandfather's Light 12, nor was my father's standard weight A-5.

Great-grandpa was a market hunter and that Model 11 was the only autoloader he ever had. Grandpa's Light 12 was the only firearm he ever had. Dad eventually became a collector, but for 40 years his standard weight A-5 was the only shotgun he hunted with every year. None of them ever had the butt-stocks removed.


That’s great info! So my question is did they ever clean it? If so, do you know how they clean the breach bolt or inside the receiver for regular cleanings?


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:36 am 
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Posts: 26015
Location: Plainfield, IL
bustabeak wrote:

That’s great info! So my question is did they ever clean it? If so, do you know how they clean the breach bolt or inside the receiver for regular cleanings?


I knew my great-grandfather, George Chamberlain Wakeman, quite well. He never cleaned his guns that I know of.

As far my grandfather, Earl, and my Dad-- sure . . . regular cleaning of the guns with Hoppe's and drops of gun oil on the barrel rails and action. I still have several A-5's. Irrigating the action with Breakfree, but just normal maintenance. There isn't much to do with an A-5. They were not designed to be taken apart. The super thin slotted screws are guaranteed screw-driver snappers.

Grandpa's gun (1958 Light Twelve) still runs like a champ today.



Now, it is 62 years later and the gun has never been taken apart-- no screw has ever been touched on it.


_________________
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http://randywakeman.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:54 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 5942
Location: Newton Kansas
bustabeak wrote:
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
Only take that action completely apart that far about every 15 YEARS, or 10-15,000 rounds.

I'm SERIOUS here.

They do not require a huge amount of cleaning back in there.


Ok, so I’ve a question, I could be completely wrong here. But wouldn’t you have to remove the tang screw with every cleaning of the action? You have to take the trigger assembly out to remove the bolt correct? Or are you saying you never clean any of that for 10,000 to 15,000 rounds? The bolt, reciever etc.?

Exactly what I said.

For between 1 and 2 DECADES, I take apart NOTHING but the barrel.
I don't take the stock off, I don't take the trigger mechanism out, I don't remove the bolt.

I wipe out what parts of the receiver are reachable with the bolt locked back, and that is ALL.

I drip a drop or 2 of Break Free CLP on the receiver rails before shooting, I drip a drop of CLP on the outboard extractor spring/plunger area once every couple YEARS.

I drip a drop or 2 of CLP on the shell lifter pivots, through the bottom opening, every year or 2.

A year ago (Spring 2019) I acquired a Louisiana Late 50's IIRC Auto-5, some Cajun's former Duck Slaughterer (La. address on the hard case).
Had rusted, been polished (removing virtually all engraving), re-blued, rusted again, 2 barrels, 1 Mod, 1 former Mod with a Multi-Choke on it.
Ghastly black plastic furniture.

That girl ran PERFECTLY (albeit a tad sluggishly (I could tell)) BEFORE I took her apart and cleaned a half-century of Swamp Gunk out of that action.

I sanded a much better fit onto the furniture where it met the steel before I let a friend who had arranged the purchase (came with a .270W BAR (total price $800)) buy her away from me for $200.

That gun does.... not.... need.... the.... receiver.... cleaned.... out.... constantly.
Don't waste your time doing so.

_________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:58 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5136
+1^!


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:07 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 5942
Location: Newton Kansas
[quote="bustabeak"]
That’s great info! So my question is did they ever clean it? If so, do you know how they clean the breach bolt or inside the receiver for regular cleanings?[/quote]

Not Required.

"Regular cleaning" entails cleaning out the barrel, wiping off the outside of the magazine tube, and wiping off the front of the bolt, maybe the side of it when it is closed.
Then wiping off all your handprints after you put it back together.

Replace the recoil and action springs every couple decades preferably, they DO get tired, they work damn hard.
That is pretty much the only time I ever open any up farther.

The real, old-school Ste. John Moses Browning Automatic 5 and her clones, does not require the constant cleaning and care of Benellis or Remington gassers.

They were DESIGNED around the nasty, filthy, clogging, Holy Black Gunpowder, in 1898 through 1901.
This was also the very absolute beginnings of smokeless gunpowder.

That Auto-5 will require LESS maintenance, and will be MORE reliable, than any, and every, other self-shucker made in the last century.

The reliability of the Auto-5 makes Gravity envious.

_________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:32 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5136
Chuck Norris wishes he was an Auto 5


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:55 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 3622
Location: Western Tampa, FL
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
bustabeak wrote:
That’s great info! So my question is did they ever clean it? If so, do you know how they clean the breach bolt or inside the receiver for regular cleanings?[/quote]

Not Required.

"Regular cleaning" entails cleaning out the barrel, wiping off the outside of the magazine tube, and wiping off the front of the bolt, maybe the side of it when it is closed.
Then wiping off all your handprints after you put it back together.

Replace the recoil and action springs every couple decades preferably, they DO get tired, they work damn hard.
That is pretty much the only time I ever open any up farther.

The real, old-school Ste. John Moses Browning Automatic 5 and her clones, does not require the constant cleaning and care of Benellis or Remington gassers.

They were DESIGNED around the nasty, filthy, clogging, Holy Black Gunpowder, in 1898 through 1901.
This was also the very absolute beginnings of smokeless gunpowder.

That Auto-5 will require LESS maintenance, and will be MORE reliable, than any, and every, other self-shucker made in the last century.

The reliability of the Auto-5 makes Gravity envious.



A very apt description of the Auto 5s reliability! In addition, for all the chatter about the ultra fast cycling Benelli, Winchester, et al semi autos; it turns out that the 118 year old design of the Auto 5 is faster! Check it out below.

https://www.multigunmedia.com/speed-shotguning.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:29 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:49 pm
Posts: 247
Re A5 action cleaning: I purchased my A5 Light 20 new in 1967 and shot it as a skeet gun, hunter and starting in the 90's Sporting. After about 40 some years and maybe 80k+ rounds it broke a firing pin. That's when the action got cleaned. There was carbon, powder, brass slivers, flattened shot all neatly stored in the action but it was 100% reliable till the firing pin broke. Raked out the debris, replaced the firing pin and gave everything a light coat of oil and put her back in service. Still running great today.


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:49 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:42 pm
Posts: 21
I had an A5 brought to my shop with cycling issues in about 2000. I was told the gun stopped cycling during the previous duck season. The gun was obviously old and very well used. Most of the blueing was gone and the checkering had been worn smooth...it had seen a lot of days afield. I completely stripped it, cleaned it and checked for wear. I couldn’t find a thing wrong with it. I replaced the obligatory springs and friction ring and it ran flawlessly during testing. When I delivered the gun I asked the gentleman how long he’d owned it...he answered that he’d bought it new in 1945 when he got home from WW2! He also told me I was the only person who had ever disassembled it after 55 years of regular hunting, and that he thought something must have broken because it never jammed before! The only problem was 55 years worth of mud, foxtails, seeds and other unidentifiable detritus.

My own A5 was a gift from my girlfriend in 1970...I married her and still have them both. Btw-the buttstock on mine has only been off once and it still runs just fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:32 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 8366
Location: Louisiana
Amazing guns. I only wish that I could shoot them well. I've owned two Light Twelves and a Sweet Sixteen, and couldn't hit diddly with any of 'em.


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 Post subject: Re: Light 12 auto 5 japan. Tang screw problem
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:16 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:11 am
Posts: 51
So thanks to everyone for all the help. I purchased a replacement tang screw from Midwest gun works and it fits perfect. I can back it out and tighten it completely. Just wish I would have been smarter and not made some marks on the wood and the tang trying to get the original screw out. But hey, I guess it can always be refinished one day.... thanks again for your help everyone.




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