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 Post subject: Trigger Issue
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:10 pm 
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I have a Browning 12-gauge Cynergy Euro Sporting shotgun that I am occasionally experiencing a trigger issue. What I will describe below happens about 6 to 8 times per 100 shots.

I have had this gun for about 11 years and have shot approximately 60,000 shots with it. I am very familiar with this gun and I do understand how to shoot it.
The issue is that after the first shot, the trigger will lose all resistance and will just swing front to back and will not fire the second shot. The trigger normally has about 4.5 pounds of pull resistance but after firing the first shot the pull resistance is zero pounds. It is just a loose trigger. The trigger can be moved front to back with no resistance.

I have used several different types of shells and it happens with all of them. The gun would shoot fine for 25 to 30 shots and the problem would happen. Then the gun would be fine for many more shots and then happen again. I could find no way to predict when this would happen. I have shot the gun for a full round of sporting clays (100 shots) and the problem would not happen, but the next time shooting it would happen 6 to 8 times per 100 shots. Very unpredictable.

I have done a complete cleaning of the gun 3 times including pulling the trigger group out and giving it a good cleaning. Problem still exists after the cleanings.

I sent the gun to Browning for repair, but they could not duplicate the problem and were not able to fix it. They were very responsive to my problem, including sending me an email and giving me a phone call to discuss. They shot the gun many times trying to duplicate the problem. I am not upset with Browning. They were willing to do whatever it took to fix the gun but they just couldn’t duplicate the problem.

As you would expect, when we spoke on the phone, Browning asked me about trapping the trigger. I do not think I was trapping the trigger. I even intentionally trapped the trigger several times trying to make the problem happen but I was unable to recreate the problem on purpose. When I would intentionally trap the trigger and then release it, it would fire the second shot when I pulled the trigger. I do not think trapping the trigger is the problem.

I got the gun back from Browning yesterday and went out today to the range today and shot it 125 times. The gun worked fine, no problems. I intentionally trapped the trigger several times today but I could not recreate the problem.

The gun was sent to Browning about a year ago because the gun would break open after firing the first shot and Browning did a complete rebuild. I believe the problem was something to do with the lever spring but Browning fixed that problem. After the rebuild, I shot the gun 5000 to 6000 times before this problem started happening. I was very happy with Browning’s rebuild.

Does anyone have a clue as to what would cause the trigger to lose pull resistance after the first shot and just swing front to back?




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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Issue
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:45 pm 
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I'm not real familiar with the Cynergy guns, but if this were a regular Citori action, I would guess that the problem is either a trigger return spring that is binding sometimes, or something is wrong with the inertia block not switching to the second hammer sear.

Try shooting the other barrel first and see if that makes a difference. Does the problem occur more often with any particular presentation... such as a long, slow incomer where you might have a tendency to aim the gun and squeeze the trigger instead of pulling it?

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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Issue
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:51 pm
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Ulysses -- It happens more often when firing the top barrel first but will also happen when firing the bottom barrel first.
Not sure about the target presentation when it happens. Just haven't paid attention to that or even thought about that as an issue. I will start noting the presentation when it happens. If I find something consistent, I will report back here.
On long incomers, I do have some pressure on the trigger while waiting to fire. Could that have an effect on this problem?

Thanks for your response.


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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Issue
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:30 pm 
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It was probably some crud in the trigger assembly and as part of their work, they gave it a major cleaning.
Next time that gun starts popping open, replace the top lever spring and be done with the problem. Any other money given them on that complaint was wasted.

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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Issue
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:43 pm 
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[quote="Ulysses" or something is wrong with the inertia block not switching to the second hammer sear.[/quote]


A friend of mine had this same problem and this is what it was.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Issue
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:42 pm 
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hitsomemisssome wrote:
Ulysses -- It happens more often when firing the top barrel first but will also happen when firing the bottom barrel first.
Not sure about the target presentation when it happens. Just haven't paid attention to that or even thought about that as an issue. I will start noting the presentation when it happens. If I find something consistent, I will report back here.
On long incomers, I do have some pressure on the trigger while waiting to fire. Could that have an effect on this problem?

Thanks for your response.


I can't say for sure that how you pull the trigger would affect the situation, but it might. I know that on two occasions with my Release Triggers O/U, the sloooow release of the trigger on long incomers resulted in a Double Fire. That'll get your attention real quick! Two ounces of lead at 1200 fps muzzle velocity results in a heck of a lot more recoil than I like.

I realize that your gun is not a Release Trigger, but I think it's still a possibility that if you're just slowly increasing the pressure on the trigger, at the instant that the hammer disengages from the sear, the trigger is kind of in a neutral (in between) state of being, and the resultant recoil could result in a manipulation of the trigger that would not be considered as normal during a regular firm pull of a trigger. Again, I'm not saying that it IS the cause of the problem, but I wouldn't totally rule it out. Observe what and how you're shooting the next time this happens. A crisp, firm trigger pull is your safest bet for reliable functioning. When you start "milking" the trigger as if you're shooting a bolt action rifle, you MIGHT induce problems due to the way the trigger/hammer/sear/inertia block work.

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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Issue
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:53 pm 
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YevetS wrote:
[quote="Ulysses" or something is wrong with the inertia block not switching to the second hammer sear.



A friend of mine had this same problem and this is what it was.

Steve[/quote]

Thanks, Steve. Springs can get old and weak. Sear and hammer notches can get worn. Parts can get gunked up with carbon and unburnt powder. Lots of things can cause problems. When trouble-shooting problems, I generally try to be sure the easiest ones are taken care of first... such as a good cleaning.

Next I try to make sure it's not operator error. Then there's the possibility of the gun not being assembled correctly (if it's an autoloader). Then there's worn parts and weak springs. And it can even be ammo related on some things. Lots of things can go wrong, but if the gun is properly maintained and of good quality, malfunctions should be rare.



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