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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:58 pm 
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Location: Missoula, MT
Yes, 3" chambers have been around for a long time. I believe predominantly for heavy waterfowl loads. Those are now steel and old doubles with soldered bbls and ribs don't do well with steel.

I realize there are 3" pheasant loads, turkey loads, and maybe slugs (don't really know, never shot a slug). I don't know how popular 3" pheasant loads or even turkey loads are. Never seen the need for 3" pheasant loads, and we don't do a lot of turkey hunting in Montana.

Only point is, Why? If its for steel, forget it. Pheasant or turkey? Maybe.



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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:04 pm 
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Current 3" non-toxic available loads fall far short of the old 1-7/8 ounce maximum (non-turkey) payload lead loads.
Some people are wary of any modifications, some are not. Your gun, your money, your choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:35 pm 
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Yea, I agree with the points both of you are making. However, some of those old double guns came with 3" chambers. They don't make the old 1 7/8 oz. lead waterfowl loads anymore but they still sell the 15 pellet "OO" buckshot load & god only knows what for turkeys! I have a not so old 12 ga. double gun that has 3" chambers & 3 not so old 10 ga. doubles that have 3.5" chambers. Yes, your gun your choice, my only point is make an intelligent choice! Like I said before, I don't shoot steel but I do shoot the hard tungsten alloys when I'm not shooting bismuth at waterfowl. I have had gunsmiths tell me hevi shot is not as hard on your barrel as steel. One reason for that is you can shoot a smaller size shot with greater effect. I have a friend that has shot factory hevi shot in a high grade Parker with no ill effect. I think he is nuts! I wouldn't shoot hard shot in any non steel rated shotgun. Sometimes the only difference between steel rated & not steel rated is the choke. In this age of choke tubes you can buy extended steel rated choke tubes but that won't automatically make your gun steel compatible. The prudent mariner seeks a qualified professional opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
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geometric wrote:
Yea, I agree with the points both of you are making. However, some of those old double guns came with 3" chambers. They don't make the old 1 7/8 oz. lead waterfowl loads anymore but they still sell the 15 pellet "OO" buckshot load & god only knows what for turkeys! I have a not so old 12 ga. double gun that has 3" chambers & 3 not so old 10 ga. doubles that have 3.5" chambers. Yes, your gun your choice, my only point is make an intelligent choice! Like I said before, I don't shoot steel but I do shoot the hard tungsten alloys when I'm not shooting bismuth at waterfowl. I have had gunsmiths tell me hevi shot is not as hard on your barrel as steel. One reason for that is you can shoot a smaller size shot with greater effect. I have a friend that has shot factory hevi shot in a high grade Parker with no ill effect. I think he is nuts! I wouldn't shoot hard shot in any non steel rated shotgun. Sometimes the only difference between steel rated & not steel rated is the choke. In this age of choke tubes you can buy extended steel rated choke tubes but that won't automatically make your gun steel compatible. The prudent mariner seeks a qualified professional opinion.


You can get that Professional Opinion from Tom Rosters writings of Steel Shot , he
explicitly shares with us the rumors of porch talk about using steel shot in different
barrels and chokes.....there's a lot of knowledge in his manual (shotgun Barrel
alterations) for $15.00 , IMO !


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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:23 am 
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All Roster is doing is giving you a summation of technical information he found published somewhere. He is not a gunsmith or an engineer. What you get from him is somebody else's opinion. I doubt he ever tested a shotgun. There is no substitution for an examination by a qualified gunsmith. You can't find the critical measurements of a gun, the suitability for modification or the condition from a pamphlet copied from somebody else's work by a scribe with unqualified conclusions. So, it's your gun, you are going to do what you want anyway. I hope it works but when it's my gun, I'm going to an expert gunsmith. Gunsmiths are like all other professions. They have specialties. Not every gunsmith is qualified on shotgun chambers either.


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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:46 am 
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Just for info, I am not a professional any more. I am retired. But I was a licensed gunsmith and sold guns for many years. And I was also a licensed Professional Engineer (mechanical) for 40 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:57 am 
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Well then, I would say that you have excellent credentials that back up your opinions on the subject

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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:27 am 
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geometric wrote:
All Roster is doing is giving you a summation of technical information he found published somewhere. He is not a gunsmith or an engineer. What you get from him is somebody else's opinion. I doubt he ever tested a shotgun. There is no substitution for an examination by a qualified gunsmith. You can't find the critical measurements of a gun, the suitability for modification or the condition from a pamphlet copied from somebody else's work by a scribe with unqualified conclusions. So, it's your gun, you are going to do what you want anyway. I hope it works but when it's my gun, I'm going to an expert gunsmith. Gunsmiths are like all other professions. They have specialties. Not every gunsmith is qualified on shotgun chambers either.


Apparently you didn't see where Roster is the foremost credentialed Ballistic engineer
who is recognized by the USFG and the Consep program ?

What is your credentials to have such a opinion ? other than Porch Talk BS !

Have you been on the payroll of gun manufactures to develop steel shot loads
Like he has ?


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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:41 am 
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I sure wouldn't put having worked on steel loads on my resume. As far as I am concerned everything in the last 20 years has been hype. Blind Side, Black Cloud, etc., etc. fly in the face of even the simplest physics with silly claims.

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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:40 pm 
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
I am not on a vendetta to badmouth Roster or anybody else. Ballistics engineer, really where did he go to engineering school & what degrees does he hold? What makes me qualified to voice an opinion? Well, I paid him to work up loads for me. I could be wrong but I don't think he does ballistic testing. Me, "did anybody actually shoot these loads". Him, "well sure". They may have been extrapolated from a data base somewhere but I get the distinct feeling they were not tested. I am not a gunsmith but I do have an engineering degree. I have had a lot of that kind of work done for me & have read extensively on the subject. I am not qualified to offer that service to the public but I do know enough to be highly suspicious when it appears somebody is shooting a line of BS. I know he worked on the steel shot program for the USFWS where they shot a bunch of tame ducks on what amounted to a clothes line trolley. So now he has extrapolated that to being the worlds leading authority on everything associated with shotguns & hunting! I'm not buying it!


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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 607
I sure have had a Good Laugh at your responses , I suppose I should wait for a list of all
your accomplishments with ballistic of a shotgun as I'm sure you are well qualified , maybe not ?
With Roster offering his test data in several manuals like , Buffered Lead & Bismuth manual
along with video's showing the Art of Waterfowling and his ability to make shots on waterfowl
only 5% of the hunters can make .
He is also a feature writer for Sporting Clays magazine and other Top hunting and shooting
magazines !

I guess I could continue but I really see no point of discussing his accomplishments with
someone who only offers Porch Talk BS .

I bet you are fun to hunt with , with all your dreamt up stories ?


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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:42 pm 
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Porch talk & dreamt up stories? Why do you care what I think? One question, when is the wedding scheduled, you seem to be in love with the guy. I don't need anything from Mr. Roster nor do I "MAKE UP STORIES". I have no need or desire to make anything up & I don't need shooting lessons. End of discussion, go bother somebody else!


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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:58 am 
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I can't think of a circumstance where altering the chamber of a shotgun has helped its value.
It is a personal choice that one has to make.
For me, it would be a definite "no go" in a prospective purchase.

Tom Roster is a self-promoting writer. He is not alone in that regard, but that much is clear to me.
I have my doubts about some of his assertions.
We all take need to examine carefully the source and actual statements of "experts".


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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:35 pm 
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Amen! We should be discussing things to learn from each other, not fighting over it! I am sorry if my views offend anybody but they are just opinions. Don't take it personally! Discussion stimulates the thought process and we are all entitled to our views. I don't get mad because everybody doesn't agree with me. Now, the self promoting angle is aggravating!


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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
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saskbooknut wrote:
I can't think of a circumstance where altering the chamber of a shotgun has helped its value.
It is a personal choice that one has to make.
For me, it would be a definite "no go" in a prospective purchase.

Tom Roster is a self-promoting writer. He is not alone in that regard, but that much is clear to me.
I have my doubts about some of his assertions.
We all take need to examine carefully the source and actual statements of "experts".


With Rosters credentials it's easy to do , and several states have used his timely
work as gospel in the use of Steel Shot so much so , even USFG and ammo companies
use him as authority of ballistics in a court of Law .
What do you bring to the table to be able to critique his authority ? besides slander
Porch talk BS !


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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:25 am 
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Critique his authority?? Have you lost your mind? He has no authority! What research papers has he written? How would he know? He wrote a pamphlet, not a book! What is your interest in this? Do you get a kickback for being his advocate? We know he knows everything because he says so, right? Expert gunsmiths opinion is just porch talk? Please go away, I'm getting sick!


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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 607
Well I'll defend my Friends expertise long before I would listen to your slanderous BS !
I can only hope those who read this takes a few minutes and researches Tom Rosters works
as he has contributed a lot to the modern shotgunning world . There always will be differences
of opinions but a matter of fact is a fact and only those who have the resources and funding
can prove what is rightfully so !
Meantime there is more Porch Talk BS from those naysayers !


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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:31 am 
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I kept confusing the name with Bob Brister. Couldn’t understand the argument, since he seemed to contribute a lot to shotgunning.

My mistake; please carry on.

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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:05 am 
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The climate scientists who twist the raw data to support the "climate change" agenda are the only ones who can get funding but that does not make their drivel any more palatable to me.

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I do not trust Remington's dating service accuracy. If they were Match.com, you could end up with Nancy Pelosi.


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 Post subject: Re: Lengthening chambers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:35 am 
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Hey Virginian,
I agree with Casonet. The fact that you may be retired doesn't detract from you credentials. Regarding Bob Brister, he isn't a part of this discussion but I did read his book. I have to conclude from reading his works that Bob is a great Guy & a gentleman. I did learn a lot from his writings. Yea, if a gunsmith determines it is safe & that's what you want, go for it! Some types of loads work better in a 3" chamber. I load 1.25 oz. Hevi Shot in a 3", 12 ga. hull using Hodgdon's data. Great load, I've made fantastic shots with it w/ #4's & 5's on ducks, Canadas & Snows. The gun is a DeHann SO. I lengthened the chamber on my 20 ga. 311 Stevens but as of this date, I have not fired a 3" load in it or the other 20 ga. I have with 3" chambers. The 3" 20 ga. does have applications but the only ones I have personally are the 1 1/8 oz. lead load & Bismuth. I haven't loaded any yet because I can't find the hulls called for in the data. I think I will call Hodgdons. Cheddite & Fiocchi hulls are available. Some Folks like the 1.25 oz. 3" 20 ga load but I don't. I have killed pheasant with the 20 ga., 1 1/8 oz., 2 3/4" magnum load. It worked fine but I have a feeling 1 oz. loads would have worked just as fine. My other guns will keep the chambering they came with!




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