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 Post subject: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 10:17 am
Posts: 87
I have had my 725 Trap max for a few months now am starting to see misfires on the Under barrel. I searched it and found it is a fairly common issue. In one of the threads that came up, I saw some mention that "newer" pins are .015" longer.

My gun is pretty new so I would have expected it to have the new, longer pin.

I sent an email too Browning earlier and they said "to the best of my knowledge the pin hasn't changed"

I can order a new pin but it would be nice to know if I am getting the longer pin if it even exists. I don't think they changed the part number. Everywhere I look I see the same part number. B1334157

Anyone know more about this? I can measure the pin but doesn't do much good if I don't know the specified length.




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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:59 pm 
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rhodesengr wrote:
I have had my 725 Trap max for a few months now am starting to see misfires on the Under barrel. I searched it and found it is a fairly common issue. In one of the threads that came up, I saw some mention that "newer" pins are .015" longer.

My gun is pretty new so I would have expected it to have the new, longer pin.

I sent an email too Browning earlier and they said "to the best of my knowledge the pin hasn't changed"

I can order a new pin but it would be nice to know if I am getting the longer pin if it even exists. I don't think they changed the part number. Everywhere I look I see the same part number. B1334157

Anyone know more about this? I can measure the pin but doesn't do much good if I don't know the specified length.


Have you considered

1. Removing the firing pin and firing pin return spring and cleaning them well and cleaning the recess that they go in?

2. Changing to different ammo? Some ammo has harder primers.

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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 10:17 am
Posts: 87
Ulysses wrote:
Have you considered

1. Removing the firing pin and firing pin return spring and cleaning them well and cleaning the recess that they go in?

2. Changing to different ammo? Some ammo has harder primers.


Good tips for sure. I am going to take the pin out, inspect it, and clean the housing.

I did more digging and it seems Browning's switch to a long pin was a number of years ago. The original length was 1.193" and the new length is 1.209"

There is an after market pin that supposedly is less prone to developing misfires
https://www.jnpgunsprings.com/BROWNING- ... -p72200014

I am trying to get a new pin under warranty as first step.


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:17 pm
Posts: 314
Location: Trinidad, CO
When I shot primarily Brownings, I always kept a couple spares in my kit box. Made a good friend or two by having them handy. Brownell's sells them for 10-12 dollars each. The pins are good for all Citori including the 725's. There is one size for all 12 ga and a different size for all sub-gauges. I can't speak for 16 ga though.

I bought a set from JP for a F3. No appreciable difference than factory. I called Blaser and they just send me a new set. I just had a couple cases of bad AA ammo. I also had a batch of Estate that gave me fits. Interesting was that both loads were 1oz @ 1290.

Things that make you go Hmmmmmm.

s/f Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 10:17 am
Posts: 87
The current price on the Browning website parts list is $6.25. They are 11-something at Midwest. I called browning today to order some and the guy said he'd just send me one. So that's cool. He mentioned Cheddite primers as the cause. No clue if that's what's in Topgun.


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:04 am 
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Posts: 438
Location: South Central Pennsylvania
IMHO J&P pins are tougher than stock Browning...my experience comes from Rio primers...stock pins (especially lower) were beat up after a number of flats, J&P lower only had a small scar after finishing out those shells.

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Citori 725 Skeet 12/28"
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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:55 am 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 10:17 am
Posts: 87
28ga. wrote:
IMHO J&P pins are tougher than stock Browning...my experience comes from Rio primers...stock pins (especially lower) were beat up after a number of flats, J&P lower only had a small scar after finishing out those shells.


I will probably try both after a while. Now that I know it's an issue with Citori. I just got my punch set in. So now I can change the pin.


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:44 am
Posts: 168
Location: Los Angeles, CA
rhodesengr wrote:
The current price on the Browning website parts list is $6.25. They are 11-something at Midwest. I called browning today to order some and the guy said he'd just send me one. So that's cool. He mentioned Cheddite primers as the cause. No clue if that's what's in Topgun.


I had the same problem with the bottom barrel of my Citori 725. Bought it used with a very low rounds count. Put it in the shop twice, still had the occasional FTF.

My solution... stop using Federal Top Gun ammo. Yes, it is widely available . Yes, the price is good. But, it just didn't work in the lower barrel of my gun.

I bought a couple boxes of Winchester super targets (same low price) and not one failure after that. Have shot about 2500 rounds since switching, no problems. I traded ammo with a friend who had a couple flats of Winchester

I now reload. I use Winchester and cheddite primers. No problems whatsoever with those. I also have no problems with fiocchi primers or ammo that I buy.

Stop using the Federal Top Gun ammo. It may be as simple as that.

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Browning Citori 725 Sporting
Tristar Viper G2 Sporting
Tristar Sporting O/U (aka Turkish Junk)
MEC 9000 to reload


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 10:17 am
Posts: 87
md2020 wrote:
I had the same problem with the bottom barrel of my Citori 725. Bought it used with a very low rounds count. Put it in the shop twice, still had the occasional FTF.

My solution... stop using Federal Top Gun ammo. Yes, it is widely available . Yes, the price is good. But, it just didn't work in the lower barrel of my gun.

I bought a couple boxes of Winchester super targets (same low price) and not one failure after that. Have shot about 2500 rounds since switching, no problems. I traded ammo with a friend who had a couple flats of Winchester

I now reload. I use Winchester and cheddite primers. No problems whatsoever with those. I also have no problems with fiocchi primers or ammo that I buy.

Stop using the Federal Top Gun ammo. It may be as simple as that.


This is very interesting and thanks for the post. Right now, I can't buy much of anything let alone pick and choose between brands but I will try getting away from TopGun when other products become available. I am planning to eventually start making my own shells but components aren't available either.


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:12 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:44 am
Posts: 168
Location: Los Angeles, CA
rhodesengr wrote:

This is very interesting and thanks for the post. Right now, I can't buy much of anything let alone pick and choose between brands but I will try getting away from TopGun when other products become available. I am planning to eventually start making my own shells but components aren't available either.




I heard all the same things three months ago when I started reloading... no primers, no components, blah, blah, blah... Well... I have been able to find what I need from private sellers or by watching the online stores for when things are available. I am always on the lookout and I buy immediately. Its possible.

I will also occasionally buy shells at the range if they are reasonably priced. They normally have Estate or Fiocchi that they sell $9 or $10 a box. So its about an extra $10 for a day of shooting, not bad to preserve the supplies at home. More than $10 and I shoot my own ammo at $7 a box (current prices).

Point is... might as well get your reloader now and get started down that path. Its not hard at all. That is ultimately how I control what I put into my gun.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Browning Citori 725 Sporting
Tristar Viper G2 Sporting
Tristar Sporting O/U (aka Turkish Junk)
MEC 9000 to reload


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1189
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
md2020 wrote:
I had the same problem with the bottom barrel of my Citori 725. Bought it used with a very low rounds count. Put it in the shop twice, still had the occasional FTF.

My solution... stop using Federal Top Gun ammo. Yes, it is widely available . Yes, the price is good. But, it just didn't work in the lower barrel of my gun.

I bought a couple boxes of Winchester super targets (same low price) and not one failure after that. Have shot about 2500 rounds since switching, no problems. I traded ammo with a friend who had a couple flats of Winchester

I now reload. I use Winchester and cheddite primers. No problems whatsoever with those. I also have no problems with fiocchi primers or ammo that I buy.

Stop using the Federal Top Gun ammo. It may be as simple as that.


My experience is quite different. I avoid European ammo and primers and only use US ammo and primers (Top Guns and Gun Clubs). I have no problem with those in my Brownings. The Euro primers are hard, brittle and will pierce and damage your firing pins. Once damaged and shortened, such firing pins will cause misfires with lots of ammo.


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 10:17 am
Posts: 87
twohigh wrote:
The Euro primers are hard, brittle and will pierce and damage your firing pins. Once damaged and shortened, such firing pins will cause misfires with lots of ammo.


The parts guy at Browning mentioned Cheddite primers by name. I can't say if he is right or wrong but it is what he told me. I do not think I have shot any rounds with Cheddite. I have mostly shot Top Gun, some Gun Club, and a few cases of Herters. One or two boxes of AA.


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:32 pm 
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Location: Arnaudville, LA
Best firing pins you can buy:
J&P Custom Products, LLC
www.jnpgunsprings.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:24 pm
Posts: 438
Location: South Central Pennsylvania
shootingcajun wrote:
Best firing pins you can buy:
J&P Custom Products, LLC
http://www.jnpgunsprings.com/


Yep.

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Citori 725 Skeet 12/28"
CZ Drake .410/28"


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:04 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:44 am
Posts: 168
Location: Los Angeles, CA
shootingcajun wrote:
Best firing pins you can buy:
J&P Custom Products, LLC
http://www.jnpgunsprings.com/



Better than stock?


What makes them better?

_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Browning Citori 725 Sporting
Tristar Viper G2 Sporting
Tristar Sporting O/U (aka Turkish Junk)
MEC 9000 to reload


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:05 am
Posts: 778
Take the barrel off and fire the lower barrel. Look at the firing pin with a magnifier, you will probably notice chips or erosion of the firing pin. I have replaced dozens here and have found cheap ammo [cheddite] primers are a cause.
I was told pierced primers and hot gasses were the problem. Not sure but it seems a browning problem mainly. Other guns don't seem to have the same problems. After I gave up on cheap ammo, the problem went away.


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:26 am 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 10:17 am
Posts: 87
Noticed something tonight. I have my 725 apart and getting ready to change the lower pin.

The upper pin hammer hits the upper pin at the far end of the hammer.
The lower hammer hits the lower pin about halfway up the hammer.

So if the springs are the same (maybe the aren't but they look the same) the upper hammer is going to have a lot more velocity when it hits than the lower hammer. Anyone notice this before?


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:31 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:21 pm
Posts: 247
Location: NJ
I had the lower fire pin problems on my 725, had to replace lower pin first time at 1500 rounds, got replacements from browning for $7 approx. cleaned and replaced, replaced lower pin again at 2000 rounds. Then like you I ask and all recommended I buy J&P pins spring and pin kit came to $65 a lot more than browning $7 pin, note this was a brand new gun in 2019 when I started to go through the fire pin erosion thing. I installed the J&P kit as $ did not matter at the time and I wanted this fixed. J&P kit is nice kit and yes the springs are beefed up to me, and looked like a very well made kit , so I ordered a second kit then for a spare.. Well J&P pin lasted 500 rounds and they were eroded off the lower pin by then I did notice I had primer pierce problem on my shells. Maybe 1 or 2 shell pierced every 100 shells. Since I had bought a 2nd kit I just replaced the lower pin with the other kit I bought from J&P. That pin lasted 700 rounds. Called J&P to ask if he could send me just 2 pins as 500 rounds and 700 rounds is way to soon for pins to fail. I thought it was crazy for $70 kit. I called J&P and he said no he could not replace, as no pins could hold up vs pierced primer and not to shoot , " shells with hard primers," I said i shoot (12ga, 2 3/4", 1 1/8 oz, #7.5 High Antimony Fiocchi because I got a great deal on 10 flats. He said yes they have hard primers, that's my problems not his fire pins.
So now Im discussed 2500 rounds in approx. and replaced fire pins 4 times. Called browning and they said ok they would send me new pins no charge. great but will this continue? he said dont use Hard primer shells on lower barrel and said Fiocchi shells have hard primers, so I then installed the new browning pins $7, and now have over 8000 rounds no problems, as I only shoot Remington's Nitros , Federals, top guns, and have zero pierced primers and no pin troubles since I switched.
I now only shoot the Fiocchi through a Browning BT99 and Benelli SuperSport with no troubles. so yes in my findings it the shells/primers.
I am a bit upset as this problem with lower pin and Browning's O/U has been around for at least 15 years or maybe longer. If I can only shoot special shells they should tell you that in owners manual, like a car requiring certain Octane gasoline. they know the problem is there .When I ask the rep he knew my trouble right away. so why not address I ask, He said its weird some guns have no problems and some do? must have something to do with tooling and machining at factory, they know the problem is there so they should list in owners manual?

Ok GREAT gun(725) love mine, as long as you shoot the correct shells, which I do now.
Yes $7 pins work just fine, no need and wont stopped pierced pins by switching to J&P, but maybe around 30,000 rounds I will put the spring / pin kit in because it looks nice and beefed up, but it wont cure your lower pin problem, switch shells. sorry for ramble
Have a great day end enjoy the 725 rbdjr

The upper pin hits the primer straight forward,

The lower pin hits the primer downward and out to the left angle and that's what rips/pierces the hard primers its the way the pin channel is bored in receiver.

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Remington 1187SP 32"12ga
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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:13 am 
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rhodesengr wrote:
Noticed something tonight. I have my 725 apart and getting ready to change the lower pin.

The upper pin hammer hits the upper pin at the far end of the hammer.
The lower hammer hits the lower pin about halfway up the hammer.

So if the springs are the same (maybe the aren't but they look the same) the upper hammer is going to have a lot more velocity when it hits than the lower hammer. Anyone notice this before?


Yep. You got it. Noticed it many years ago. It's simply a function of the design. With the hammers pivoting about a pin that is low in the receiver, the lower/under barrel doesn't give a long swing radius for the contact point on the hammer. Nor is there a very good angle for the firing pin to strike the primer.

With the upper barrel, you get much more velocity (and therefore energy) delivered to the firing pin PLUS the firing pin makes a much more direct (near 90*) strike on the primer versus the lower velocity angled strike (perhaps 45*) from the bottom pin.

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Semi-Auto Classifieds is ONLY for Complete Semi-Auto shotguns.
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Items other than a complete shotgun go in OTHER Classifieds.


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 Post subject: Re: Citori 725 Under Firing Pin length
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:33 am 
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 10:17 am
Posts: 87
rbdjr wrote:
Ok GREAT gun(725) love mine, as long as you shoot the correct shells,


which shells are OK?




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