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Direction given by tournament official
https://www.shotgunworld.com:443/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=508162
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Author:  SBBW [ Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Direction given by tournament official

During a recent registered Sporting Clays shoot, a new trapper was at the station, joining the trapper was an official from the club. All members of my squad had just shot together the day before, so no one had objected to my target viewing method. I like to ask the trapper to show me the A bird twice, on my call. Then I request the B bird twice on my call. This is only for report pairs.
I requested this method of viewing for my show birds. I called pull, once, watched the bird and asked for the A bird a second time. At this point the official stepped in and explained to the group that we needed to view them the way they are shot. His verbiage was call for A say bang and the trapper will throw B. Then repeat for the second pair.

I accepted his request at the stand, shot my birds. After we all finished shooting the station, I asked if this was a NSCA new rule. He said no, it was the way he said to do it. I left it at that. No complaint, no fuss. I didn’t want to cause any issue for my fellow squad mates. I looked today in the NSCA rule book, and saw no definitive way that you have to call for show pairs with an on report station.

My question is this, am I wrong for asking to see the birds the way I want to? I’m the first shooter on the station, so everyone behind me gets to see them multiple times “as thrown” when I shoot the station. Thanks for the opinions.

Author:  oneounceload [ Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Direction given by tournament official

No you are not wrong; the "official" was

Author:  ShowMe [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Direction given by tournament official

SBBW wrote:
At this point the official stepped in and explained to the group that we needed to view them the way they are shot.


If I was on your squad, I would have preferred to see the show birds this way. I want to be able to watch both birds for their entire flight. I cannot do that if you are shooting them before they finish their flight.

Author:  joee12 [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Direction given by tournament official

I see nothing wrong with this, as the first shooter on the stand for your squad, it is your choice. Other squad members can see the report pairs 3-4 times while you are shooting.

Author:  SBBW [ Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Direction given by tournament official

Thanks for reassuring that I read the rules and interpreted them correctly. I went back to calling them like I wanted them on the next station. No need to make a scene.
Cheers!

Author:  Ulysses [ Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Direction given by tournament official

ShowMe wrote:

If I was on your squad, I would have preferred to see the show birds this way. I want to be able to watch both birds for their entire flight. I cannot do that if you are shooting them before they finish their flight.


I agree. I may not want to shoot the A bird where the first shooter shoots it, but if he calls "Bang" half-way through the flight and the trapper then pulls the B bird, I can't watch both birds all the way through their flight.

Sometimes the first opportunity to shoot a bird is not always your "best" alternative. Sometimes it's better to wait a little while and allow the bird to "open up" to the shooter rather than trying to shoot it quick on edge.

Author:  BigSpoonie [ Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Direction given by tournament official

Official was wrong, there are no rules.

I often have an even different method, if I can see that the traps are widely spaced. I will ask to see the "B" or second bird first, watch it all the way to the ground. Then ask to see the "A" or first bird of a report pair.

By doing so, when I view the first target, I am not just looking for it's sweet spot, but looking for the optimal break point that sets me up for the second bird.

That isn't always a big deal, but.........quite often the way a setter will beat newer shooters is to give them a "sweet" spot to break the first target, but give it to them in a place where it makes the second shot tougher. Maybe it sets them up to make a big gun movement, or a gun movement in the opposite direction. This is why we should practice taking targets early, sweet, and late, so that as a shooter, we can control where we break the target on the flight path better.

So if I view the second target first, I simply have a better idea of the area I want to break the first one,when I watch it.

Author:  SBBW [ Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Direction given by tournament official

BigSpoonie wrote:
Official was wrong, there are no rules.

I often have an even different method, if I can see that the traps are widely spaced. I will ask to see the "B" or second bird first, watch it all the way to the ground. Then ask to see the "A" or first bird of a report pair.

By doing so, when I view the first target, I am not just looking for it's sweet spot, but looking for the optimal break point that sets me up for the second bird.

That isn't always a big deal, but.........quite often the way a setter will beat newer shooters is to give them a "sweet" spot to break the first target, but give it to them in a place where it makes the second shot tougher. Maybe it sets them up to make a big gun movement, or a gun movement in the opposite direction. This is why we should practice taking targets early, sweet, and late, so that as a shooter, we can control where we break the target on the flight path better.

So if I view the second target first, I simply have a better idea of the area I want to break the first one,when I watch it.


I think I might have blown his mind if I tried that. :lol: I agree with your method of judging the sweet spot for both birds. Thanks for reinforcing my reasoning for viewing the birds.

Author:  gdub41 [ Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Direction given by tournament official

ref was wrong, you were right, you can view them however you want. Just because he thinks that they needed to be viewed the way they are intended to be shot, isn't right. I've viewed plenty of targets and after watching them I've discovered that where I want to shoot them is not always the way the target setter wants them taken. And it is not the refs call as to where they should be shot or how they should be shot. Not everyone see's targets the same

Author:  MTR [ Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Direction given by tournament official

So if it were a true pair - is the first shooter able to view the targets as singles first and then as a pair? Rule just says:

The first person on every squad shall be allowed to view a good presentation of targets from within the shoot station. This is not limited to one pair. This person is the only person permitted to mount their unloaded gun and track the targets being viewed.

is a good presentation singles for a true pair?

Author:  oneounceload [ Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Direction given by tournament official

No, if the station is a true pair, you view them as a true pair. I ask for two showings unless it is very obvious which one to shoot first. If it is not easy to determine, I will watch the first focusing on A and then moving my eyes to B; then reverse it to determine which to go after

Author:  MTR [ Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Direction given by tournament official

oneounceload wrote:
No, if the station is a true pair, you view them as a true pair. I ask for two showings unless it is very obvious which one to shoot first. If it is not easy to determine, I will watch the first focusing on A and then moving my eyes to B; then reverse it to determine which to go after

I fully agree with you on this. Just know that there has been discussions here in the past with the first shooter saying throw A (single) throw B (single) throw was a True Pair. It was said previously that was not allowed as it was not a good presentation of what the shooter will see.

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