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 Post subject: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:58 pm
Posts: 117
If you are a participant at the World, what are your thoughts about the New Streamlined Shoot-offs at the World Shoot? Is this the right answer to late shoot offs?
Recently announced: Participants at the 2020 World Skeet Championships will get away to their favorite restaurants earlier than usual each night, with a new, streamlined shoot-off format to efficiently break all the ties from the best scores posted. Shoot-offs will be conducted by score to determine both class and concurrent places at the same time, and for shoot-offs requiring multiple fields, only necessary continuations will take place.




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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:10 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:52 am
Posts: 460
Location: Eastern Kentucky
We'll see, personally I never cared much about what time I got to resturants, I go there for skeet. The delay in getting shoot offs started has been more of an issue for me. There have been years where it seemed to take an excessive amount of time to get started. Another of my pet peeves is why not turn the lights on before we need them so that as daylight wanes the lights would eliminate that time when it gets too dark to see well but lights are not on yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 195
How have the shoot-offs been streamlined?


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5745
Location: Northern Virginia
They did sort of a test run using the system this past weekend at the Masters.

Basically, all 99's go to the field and start shooting off. Once you miss, you stand off to the side. The last man keeps shooting until he misses, or clears the box.

Then they examine all the different shootoffs that would exist for the 99's, and determine if there is any reason to have a continuation.

It seemed to help a little bit. Of note, It seems to call people to the shootoff field that actually don't have a reason to shoot off. I saw a gal with a 99 get called to the shootoff field, and she didn't need to shootoff for class or concurrent in that event, so in affect, some targets were wasted, but that's up to the club or NSSA to decide. Perhaps I saw it wrong and that wasn't the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 195
Are these 99s shot-off before, during, or after the 100s shoot-off?


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:32 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5745
Location: Northern Virginia
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
Are these 99s shot-off before, during, or after the 100s shoot-off?


Both. In some cases, they did the first box of the CHAMP shootoff. In others, when there was limited daylight, they started them all off at the same time.

The problem with the Masters program is the 12 and 20 shootoff on the same night, and that makes for a lot of shootoffs.


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 195
So those shooting 100s do not report to a 'shoot-off' field and shoot a round to 3-4-5 Doubles before the shoot-offs begin?


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5745
Location: Northern Virginia
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
So those shooting 100s do not report to a 'shoot-off' field and shoot a round to 3-4-5 Doubles before the shoot-offs begin?


No. I only see that done for the 12 & 20 in the mini world, and also if you run the 75 in either the East or West of the main 150.


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:30 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:42 am
Posts: 738
Quote:
... Of note, It seems to call people to the shootoff field that actually don't have a reason to shoot off. I saw a gal with a 99 get called to the shootoff field, and she didn't need to shootoff for class or concurrent in that event, so in affect, some targets were wasted, but that's up to the club or NSSA to decide...
It is not just the expense of the targets either. Many of the shooters are flying in for the World Championships, and would purchase the requisite amount of ammo!

Hit 99 in the 28-ga, that extra box of shootoff ammo is gonna run you fourteen bucks at the pro-shop! I guess such is life. Can't tell you how many $14 boxes of ammo I have purchsed only to use two, maybe four shells :(


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5745
Location: Northern Virginia
CobraKhan wrote:
Quote:
... Of note, It seems to call people to the shootoff field that actually don't have a reason to shoot off. I saw a gal with a 99 get called to the shootoff field, and she didn't need to shootoff for class or concurrent in that event, so in affect, some targets were wasted, but that's up to the club or NSSA to decide...
It is not just the expense of the targets either. Many of the shooters are flying in for the World Championships, and would purchase the requisite amount of ammo!

Hit 99 in the 28-ga, that extra box of shootoff ammo is gonna run you fourteen bucks at the pro-shop! I guess such is life. Can't tell you how many $14 boxes of ammo I have purchsed only to use two, maybe four shells :(


The thing is, most knowledgeable shooters know why they are getting called to a shootoff, IE, Class places, concurrent, etc. If you're a AAA lady, shot a 99 20 ga, and are the only 99 in Lady concurrent, there is no need to go to the shootoff field. At the World, the 100's will clear out all places in 20 ga AAA, and there's no need to shoot for any Lady stuff, as you were the only one.

So either elect to not show up, or go gain some world class shootoff experience with free targets!!

I shot a 98 in A class for 410 at the Masters, and jumped in the car and drove home. Getting a 4 hour head start on an 8 hour drive was worth more to me than any money I might win in a shootoff.


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5745
Location: Northern Virginia
CobraKhan wrote:
....... I guess such is life. Can't tell you how many $14 boxes of ammo I have purchsed only to use two, maybe four shells :(


BTW, you CAN take that leftover ammo home with you, and use it later!


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:58 pm
Posts: 117
For many years, shoot-off organization/disorganization and length of time has been a topic of discussion. There have been some years where they appeared to run smoother and more efficiently. Most often we have sat in the stands listening to Billy Ray, waiting on shoot-off sheets and wasting precious daylight and then having a cluster when they did take place. Since this has been a hot topic and obviously the powers want things to be better, someone is making decisions. The only thing that has been publicly announced is they plan to run shoot-offs by score and conduct that one shoot-off for both class and concurrent places, which is one of my disagreements. I attend the World, spending considerable cash for many reasons, but the first one is for the skeet competition and whether I am in a shoot-off or not, I enjoy watching the shoot-offs, that's one of the high points of the day. It's the reason we are there! Watching the shoot-offs is fantastic entertainment if you love skeet. Watching the styles, personalities and performance is a hoot. Being in a shoot-off is the dream of every shooter, shoulder to shoulder in great competition. That's why we came. Being lined up on a field with 40 other shooters who shot 99 with different concurrent's and that one and only shoot-off is for all the marbles, class and concurrent, not knowing who you are shooting against for what and just come back tomorrow and see how you did doesn't strike me as what this should all be about. Plus I don't get to watch other friends and competitors because we are rushing to go to dinner which I can do the rest of the year. If dinner is more important, just go. Also, I don't think class shoot-offs have anything to do with concurrent shoot-offs. They are separate paid events with different types of competitors. Each deserve their own shoulder to shoulder shootoff against only the persons in that specific shoot-off. You bet, I'm totally in favor of better prepared, better organized, better run shootoffs, but let's don't kill the goose by running cattle car style shootoffs to save time instead of fixing the real issue, preparation, organization and implementation. Maybe I'm overreacting and all of this has been has been well thought out and taken care of, but I'm not convinced.


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5745
Location: Northern Virginia
Page 23 of the World Shoot program says the first round of the Championship Shootoff will be held before any other shootoffs start.

So that hasn't changed from any other year.

Some people just like to complain.

If you are at the shoot, and you get called for a shootoff, and you'd rather watch the other guys shootoff, then go ahead and do that.

Do what makes you happy!


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 195
high2 wrote:
Recently announced: Participants at the 2020 World Skeet Championships will get away to their favorite restaurants earlier than usual each night, with a new, streamlined shoot-off format to efficiently break all the ties from the best scores posted. Shoot-offs will be conducted by score to determine both class and concurrent places at the same time, and for shoot-offs requiring multiple fields, only necessary continuations will take place.


Who made that statement? Where?


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5745
Location: Northern Virginia
Fred, I believe it was made in a "target talk" e-mail, if you aren't receiving them, go to the NSSA website and sign up for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:58 pm
Posts: 117
"Some people just like to complain."
Jeez, John that's not nice! Even after becoming accustomed to being sheep herded in all decision making these day's, I thought this was an open forum for expression of ideas and opinions. I might enjoy sitting around the campfire and singing kumbaya, but after attending the World for over thirty years, without complaining I still have some opinions, likes and dislikes. I was curious how other's felt as sometimes change is good and bad. I am happy to see someone addressing the problems with shootoffs but I believe the issue should be about preparation, organization and implementation and not necessarily reducing the number or cramming them together. After age 70 the concurrent's take on a whole new meaning and I prefer they are shot off separately. You may not understand or concur, but I won't diss you for your opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5745
Location: Northern Virginia
high2 wrote:
........After age 70 the concurrent's take on a whole new meaning and I prefer they are shot off separately. You may not understand or concur, but I won't diss you for your opinion.


I'm all for having fun. It just seemed to me that you were complaining about the old way,a nd then complaining about the new proposals. Sorry if my statement rubbed you the wrong way. We have pretty thick skin in Naval Aviation, guess I shouldn't assume others do.

So, if you read the Program, page 23, like I suggested above, you'll see that Ladies, Veterans, Military, etc, .....should be called to the Stadium Field for their shootoffs.

I hope you get to enjoy many of them!


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 195
According to the program (page 18) - THERE IS A LIMIT TO FOUR CONCURRENTS PER SHOOTER.

It seems a shooter so limited would be eligible for shoot-offs for -

Class

Four Concurrents,

Two-man team,

Five-man team.

Seven shoot-offs run individually seems like a system warranting streamlining.


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:29 pm 
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Location: Rochester, NY
I've often wondered if a "carry-over" method of breaking ties would be appropriate in skeet like they use in trap, esp for concurrents and class places with no points/money/trophy/prizes.

Meaning if you tie for the 12ga event, ties would be broken based on the scores of the 20ga event, ect.

Depending on how/where implemented, that could make things REAL interesting going into the 410, since your 410 score could conceivably determine the winners of all the previous events of the weekend.

At any rate it would be a whole lot more equitable than long run, unless they do as I've suggested before and make long run a TRUE long run, meaning your longest stretch of broken targets in a row, not just off of the front or back.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 195
Shoot-offs are determined by long-run. Why are long-runs in shoot-offs more or less equitable than long-runs in the main event?




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