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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:01 pm 
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Shootoffs aren't determined by long run, since none of them determine targets by bird, but by total score by station.

If shootoffs were determined by long run, then missing the first bird would be worse than missing the 2nd, and if the person in front of you missed the first bird you'd only have to break the first bird to beat them, and potentially not even need to fire at the 2nd.

My point is, if you shoot a 98 missing high one first box and low 8 option last box, for a long run of 0/0 (but you ran 98 targets in a row), how is that worse than someone who misses low 8 option first box and high 1 last box for a long run of 24/24, but they missed the exact same targets and the 2nd shooter only ran 50 in a row vs 98. I would say running 98 straight targets is the bigger accomplishment, the current way long runs are considered says otherwise. Long run should EITHER be longest run of targets before a miss (off the front ONLY), or longest run of targets broken ANYWHERE (the latter being far fairer in my opinion).



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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:13 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 199
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
Shoot-offs are determined by long-run. Why are long-runs in shoot-offs more or less equitable than long-runs in the main event?


What is more equitable, a long-run based on real, genuine skeet, or a long-run determined by a different game?


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 199
This is a fairly tepid attempt at streamlining.

With the desire, perhaps the obligation, to reduce crowd size, I thought NSSA might have attempted a more extensive revision of shoot-off procedures that would require fewer shoot-offs and fewer shooters participating in shoot-offs. Reducing the number and depth of awards and more use of long-runs could be some of the options considered.


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:58 pm
Posts: 117
Ian, what you pointed out makes sense, if it's absolutely necessary to long run. But winning or losing because of long run is like kissing your sister. A good example, myself and another shooter were tied at a recent big shoot in our concurrent for place and the optional purse. He got the All American points because of long run spelled out in the program and I won the shoot off for the money. Does it change anybody's day, No. But it does sting when you shoot a good score and it's settled by long run.
Also, I believe "record" gauge long runs are determined by your method Ian.
Fred, even though some feel doubles aren't the same game as singles, that decision to shoot off doubles was a good one as the quality of shooters can make singles shootoffs go on for day's and it did, which is why they had to change the shootoffs to doubles.


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:54 pm
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Location: Amarillo, Texas
They used this system at the Blaser in March and I really liked it. As I remember, all 100's shot off of field 1, 2 and 3. I don't know how they determined who shot where because unfortunately, I didn't shoot any 100's. Field 4 was used for those shooting 99's, field 5 for 98's and so on. The higher class went first then subsequent classes followed behind. Concurrent shoot off's followed the class shoot off's. I was tied with another gentleman for class A CH in doubles. It just so happened that we were both SS concurrent and the only ones shooting 98's so the shoot off for the concurrent was the same as class. I don't think that happened very often.

What I liked about this system was that you stayed on the same field if you had a class and a concurrent shoot off because you were assigned a field according to your score. In the past, you may have a shoot off for A class 99, on field 4 and a shoot off for SS on field 8 for the same score. I've missed a few shoot offs because of this exact situation. Now, you just stay at the same field if you didn't shoot 100. The 100's shoot off's seemed a bit confusing to me, but I really didn't pay a lot of attention to them. I know the shooters that lasted through the preliminary shoot off's made it to the stadium field. There were usually only 3 or 4 that made it through.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:00 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:43 pm
Posts: 92
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
Shoot-offs are determined by long-run. Why are long-runs in shoot-offs more or less equitable than long-runs in the main event?


What is more equitable, a long-run based on real, genuine skeet, or a long-run determined by a different game?



Shootoff format IS part of the game. Just because it's a different sequence of targets than regular skeet doesn't mean it's a different game. The doubles event is a different sequence of targets than regular skeet, but nobody is claiming that's a "different game".


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined Shoot-offs at World Shoot
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:47 pm
Posts: 91
Quote:
I've often wondered if a "carry-over" method of breaking ties would be appropriate in skeet like they use in trap, esp for concurrents and class places with no points/money/trophy/prizes.

Meaning if you tie for the 12ga event, ties would be broken based on the scores of the 20ga event, ect.


All standard Trap events are shot with a 12 gauge. Skeet is 4 different gauges, and there's widely varying skill sets as you go down in size. Not everyone performs the same in a smaller gauge when compared to others in the same class or concurrent.

How do you think shooters would feel knowing their 28 gauge tie for class or concurrent, shot on a sunny and calm day would be broken by how they shoot in the .410 the following day when the weather changes to windy and rainy?

Especially the case where two shooters who are A class in the 28 gauge could be B and D class in the .410. Not a fair opportunity the following day when you now have a B class shooter competing against a D class shooter to break a previous days' tie.

You might have just taken away their chance to win their class or a concurrent.

Not to knock your attempt to help make things better, I always applaud someone provides a suggested solution rather than just to complain. Thanks for trying!

I just always try to think about how I felt when I was in the lower classes, learning how to shoot. Knowing that my 28 gauge tie is to be broken on how I perform in the .410 the next day would have scared the crap out of me! Lol




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