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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:21 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:46 am
Posts: 789
Location: Nawth Bama
I think that is a thoughtful reply, and I appreciate your going into that level of detail.

Advanced technology is not, in itself, a goal of mine.

Solidity, craftsmanship and an intrensic good feel are the hallmarks of my Tempio. And that's a low end CG.

I like what they're doing.

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Last edited by Kannoncocker on Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:36 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
Posts: 2401
If I was looking at a " higher end " target O/U and had the money, I`d buy a CG in a second. That`s not to say there`s not other high quality guns, either.

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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:41 am 
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There have been several comments on this thread as to how difficult new CG O/Us are to open. I've inquired about that as I've had to have my new Syren guns loosened before I could shoot them, and it seems silly that guns made for women would be difficult for a healthy six foot tall man to open. I was told that CG is very proud of the tight fit with which the guns come from the factory, and it ain't gonna change. Sigh. MAJ

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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:21 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
Posts: 2401
MAJENKINS wrote:
There have been several comments on this thread as to how difficult new CG O/Us are to open. I've inquired about that as I've had to have my new Syren guns loosened before I could shoot them, and it seems silly that guns made for women would be difficult for a healthy six foot tall man to open. I was told that CG is very proud of the tight fit with which the guns come from the factory, and it ain't gonna change. Sigh. MAJ



That`s just goofy, isn`t it MAJ ?

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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:44 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1016
Well i'd guess it saves money on hand fitting.


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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:13 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:41 am
Posts: 38
Location: E TN
birdhunter39 wrote:
Well i'd guess it saves money on hand fitting.


Maybe, but not much. A few swipes with a flat file and it will open much easier.

What it saves is from having a floppy sloppy gun after some real use.


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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:19 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
Posts: 2401
komatsu wrote:
birdhunter39 wrote:
Well i'd guess it saves money on hand fitting.


Maybe, but not much. A few swipes with a flat file and it will open much easier.

What it saves is from having a floppy sloppy gun after some real use.



A valid consideration. One would hope, however, that CG could strike some sort of happy medium, particularly for their female customers.

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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:50 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1016
Definitely a smart point for guns aimed at female shooters. Would be a very nice touch if they loosened them up a bit. That alone could convince a lady shooter to buy the first time she handled the gun in a shop.


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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:54 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:32 pm
Posts: 58
Trickster wrote:
There's nothing advanced about any of the Beretta offerings either, and the Miroku/Browning action design is truly primitive. Not surprising since it was designed in a barn almost 100 years ago.


During my short time on this board I’ve enjoyed reading your posts. However, I don’t at all understand the bolded statement in your above post. The Miroku/Browning design isn’t "primitive" in any standard, classic meaning of the word. It is less complicated than some, but certainly not primitive. More like the classic KISS principal of Keep It Simple Stupid.

The Superposed over/under was John Browning’s last firearm design before his death. Besides being a genius firearms designer he was also an astute business man. By his death he had numbers of firearms patents and was a wealthy man, especially for his time. If he designed his over/under shotgun in a barn (and I have never read that he did) it was by his choosing, not out of necessity and it was likely a very nice barn. The patent on his over/under was in 1926. By then some of the classic British shotgun actions, including the Boss, were already designed and in production and have since been copied or mostly copied by other makers. Obviously, the age of a shotgun design isn’t a detriment in and of itself.

As far as Miroku's updated version of Browning's original, that project was started in 1959 and they had it in production by 1960 so it isn’t a hundred years old. Yet.

If success is measured by the acceptance and numbers in use by shotgun shooters then the Miroku design is likely the most successful O/U shotgun design of all time. The Miroku design is strong, reliable, well made with attention to detail and affordable for much of the shooting and hunting public. It's like the Honda Accord or Toyota Camry of the shotgun world. Like the Accord and Camry, the Miroku design comes equipped in many different models of furnishing to suit various shooter needs and wants. And like an Accord or Camry the Miroku design serves its owners well with long life, quality build and fairly low repair needs.

Here is an article from Browning about the Citori, including how it got its name. Who could have guess that? Also interesting is that it take four months to complete a Citori build. Interesting information here along with the to-be-expected manufacturer chest thumping.

https://www.browning.com/news/articles/ ... rview.html

I agree with the statement in your other post that "Shotguns are mechanically simple, unsophisticated devices and super spiffy elegant engineering designs are pointless. Materials and manufacturing quality along with attention to detail are what matters”. That is the same point Randy makes in this article:

https://www.chuckhawks.com/over-under_shotgun.htm

Thanks for your posts. Now, following this intermission, we return to the Caesar Guerini discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:11 pm 
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Tidefanatic wrote:
MAJENKINS wrote:
There have been several comments on this thread as to how difficult new CG O/Us are to open. I've inquired about that as I've had to have my new Syren guns loosened before I could shoot them, and it seems silly that guns made for women would be difficult for a healthy six foot tall man to open. I was told that CG is very proud of the tight fit with which the guns come from the factory, and it ain't gonna change. Sigh. MAJ



That`s just goofy, isn`t it MAJ ?


Yep, it is. But fortunately I don't have to pay to get one loosened anymore as August Crocker does it as a customer service.

Back from Wyoming. Dallas hot and humid, Texas is covid-crazy, and Princess Puppy is still at the trainer's. Whiling away my idle hours looking at Wyoming real estate ads. MAJ

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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:45 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:21 pm
Posts: 5153
Location: UK
MAJENKINS wrote:
Yep, it is. But fortunately I don't have to pay to get one loosened anymore as August Crocker does it as a customer service.

MAJ
The good people at CG showed me the Invictus 3 about 18 months ago. Apart from being absolutely beautiful, it had a handy gizmo in the forend. Specifically a a little click stop adjuster for the tension and thus the opening tightness. A pal has the VII and that has it too. Great idea... Full marks to CG. {hs#

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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:57 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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"The good people at CG showed me the Invictus 3 about 18 months ago. Apart from being absolutely beautiful, it had a handy gizmo in the forend. Specifically a a little click stop adjuster for the tension and thus the opening tightness. A pal has the VII and that has it too. Great idea... Full marks to CG."

Envy here. MAJ

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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:12 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 5:53 am
Posts: 182
I have a Grade 1 Invictus , and this also has the Adjustable Action Tension Screw on the inside of the Forend .

This is a Great feature .

I have owned many P and K Models over the years . I am firmly wedded to the CG offerings.

They will also hold up to the torture of High Volume Shooting in Argentina . A place where
I have had Perazzi's pop off side ribs , after shooting 6- 10 thousand rounds during my stay. Needing to be re-soldered ,an issue that Mauro Perazzi has not seriously addressed .

Should not happen on a gun costing 12k and up .

This has never happened on any CG Model I have taken there , in 12, 20 , 28, and .410 versions .

They are Wonderful and Reliable .

PJD


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 Post subject: Re: CG quality going down?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:33 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:25 pm
Posts: 17
I would just like to enlarge on my previous post. I should mention I live in Canada.
The Browning guns I started with had absolutely no customer support here. It was on their service centers schedule. If you miss a hunting season, so what.
CG's fit me, they offered fantastic support, they looked gorgeous. I have wood on a Woodlander that would not look out of place on a Forum. But the biggest thing is, if I have a problem with a new gun or a used gun, I know CG are there to look after me.
They have earned my loyalty. Issues such as tight actions are not a problem when you have dealers who jump and ask, what do you want? Then go ahead and fix it for you.
When we spend 1/4 of the price of an automobile on a shotgun, it is reasonable that we get support from the manufacturer. Caesar Guerini does this. I have not experienced this with the big names.
CG is innovative, produce beautiful shotguns, and have customer service far beyond many other makes. They are a serious manufacturer to consider if you want a handsome gun, that is reliable and will be supported well into the future.


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