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 Post subject: Kassnar ROYAL Churchill (Ugartechea?) vs. Sharptail?
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 12:46 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 11:55 am
Posts: 4
Hey Guys,

I am looking at a Kassnar Royal Churchill sxs .410, in beautiful condition. My understanding from online research is that the Royal models were made by Ugartechea. Does anybody know anything about this?

Also, not having ever bought a Spanish gun before, I have a practical question. Not trying to bash Spanish guns, . . .just askin.

If I buy an Ugartechea, and a firing pin breaks, . . . then what? From what I understand, it is really really hard to find replacement firing pins for all Spanish sxs's. If I can't, then I've got a $1,200 wall hanger. Is this really what happens to you guys when you buy price point to mid-price Spanish doubles? (There have to be over 100,000 of these in the country from the imports of the 1960s and 1970s. ) If this is the case, then how to you guys bear this risk of a buying a potential wallhanger? (I would be almost afraid to shoot it.)

As an alternative, for about the same price ,I could get a new CZ SXS Sharptail in .410. (But, I really don't like the way they look. And, the Turkish guns seem to have no "soul". They look cold and industrial. )

Thanks for all advice.

Mannyrock




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 Post subject: Re: Kassnar ROYAL Churchill (Ugartechea?) vs. Sharptail?
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 11:24 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 3404
See the responses to your same question in the SGW General Forum.

DF

Montani Semper Liberi


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 Post subject: Re: Kassnar ROYAL Churchill (Ugartechea?) vs. Sharptail?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 7:48 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:11 am
Posts: 921
You are over emphasizing the broken firing pin worry.
Most older used shotguns have no factory parts available. People shoot them for many years without worry.
Making firing pins for double shotguns is no big deal for any competent shotgun gunsmith.
I would choose a nice condition Ugartechea over any CZ gun, without hesitation.
If you are uncertain about the maker of the Kassnar import, the proofmarks will tell all.
If you don't know about Spanish proofmarks, you can post clear pictures of the barrel flats and action water table on this site for assistance.
Not dumping on a CZ made by Huglu, they serve a niche in the market.
I just like an Ugartechea better.


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 Post subject: Re: Kassnar ROYAL Churchill (Ugartechea?) vs. Sharptail?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:02 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 11:55 am
Posts: 4
Thanks for all of the great information. Sorry about the double post in Guns General, but this was my first visit to this Board, and after I posted in the General section, the post did not instantly appear, so I assumed I had screwed it up. I then saw this Spanish doubles board and reposted here.

Thanks again.

Mannyrock


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 Post subject: Re: Kassnar ROYAL Churchill (Ugartechea?) vs. Sharptail?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:27 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 4092
Location: Western Tampa, FL
IMO the best single reference for deciphering proof marks is Wirnsberger, Gerhard, The Standard Directory of Proofmarks, Jolex, 1975 Translated by R. A. Steindler

I gave my last copy away to a friend who was getting into older double guns. I used to refer to it a great deal when I was actively buying doubles.


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 Post subject: Re: Kassnar ROYAL Churchill (Ugartechea?) vs. Sharptail?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:21 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:55 am
Posts: 14
Years ago a friend of mine who was an accomplished Gunsmith, bought a Kassnar Churchill 28 Gauge from one of his Distributors. He planned to use it on Doves, which he did... However, being a Gunsmith, he decided to tear down the gun completely and clean and inspect it before using it... He said... "The gun looked great on the outside, but looked like a chicken had finished the internal parts!" He said that tool marks abounded within, and loose metal shavings were numerous! After he cleaned up the action, the gun worked fine, but he eventually got rid of it!




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