ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:42 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:44 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 244
Location: Redwood, NY
Over the weekend had a AA hull where the brass head separated from the hull during ejection in my wife's beretta 3901RL. Scary part was it was first round of a report pair. The gun tried to feed the second she'll, luckily the hull from first round wouldn't go past forcing cone and prevented the second round from clambering

I bought the factory shells and have reloaded 3-4 times. Win209 primer, 1oz lead. Claybuster waa12sl wad 17.6 gr claydot. Loading with PW800+

The hulls looks fine prior to reloading

I'm concerned this could have been bad.

Any ideas on what caused the brass to separate?

Ways to detect before this happens again?

Steve



_________________
NSCA 545180
http://www.1000IslandsSportsmens.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:56 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:41 pm
Posts: 1026
Location: WC- IL
I've never seen a 12ga AA do this, but have seen the 410's separate. Usually an unusual sound when this happens, which is called a zinger or whistler. This could of been a serious event if 2nd shell was fired. You can either use other 12ga shell to load or buy your wife an O/U. Not saying this could happen in an O/U, but should be more noticeable when the brass separates.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:10 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 17865
Location: Kearney NE
I don't think it was a zinger, that happens when part of the hull separates from the hull and becomes part of the ejecta. I think what he is saying was the base popped off the hull and came out of the chamber on extraction but the hull body stayed in the chamber. What he described isn't unheard of with the old CFAAs. I've had a few like that myself (the base was still just hanging on the end of the hull) with once or twice fired hulls fired through an auto Depending on the loader the sizing and primer seating operations can mitigate that situation. I reseated the base on one hull but chickened out when it came to reloading and firing it, though I think it would have worked fine. Ways to detect it? You got me!

BP

_________________
You lie to the Government, it's a Felony, they lie to you, it's Politics!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:38 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:19 pm
Posts: 46
I've seen that with Gun Club hulls 2 years ago. The metal part looked perfect, it just detached.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:30 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 244
Location: Redwood, NY
BP correctly described my situation

Never found the brass head. The plastic tube was wedged in the chamber about 1" deep

Scared me for sure

_________________
NSCA 545180
http://www.1000IslandsSportsmens.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:38 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:40 pm
Posts: 67
Location: Colorado
I tried to load this shell, but gun would not close. Upon examination, the brass is cracked in two places. This is a once-fired AACF hull.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:40 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 238
Location: South of the Red
dankin wrote:
I tried to load this shell, but gun would not close. Upon examination, the brass is cracked in two places. This is a once-fired AACF hull.

Image


FYI: I recently had 3 different Rem-STS Nitro-gold shells 'come apart' in the priming station of my Dillon SL900. I'd post a pic but haven't learned how to do this on SGW... however, it creates a mell-of-a-hess in the loader as the brass head remains in the shell plate, while the CF-hull gets stuck in the die, and the powder dribbles out through the large primer hole in the plastic case.

In 30+ years of loading shotgun shells, I've NEVER experienced (or even heard of) this case separation.

Capt_C


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:34 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:05 pm
Posts: 223
Location: Albuquerque, NM
I too have seen this occur, but only once, and it was a Winchester load but not AA, rather it was one of their less expensive sport/target loads. Plastic portion of the shell stayed in the chamber, base was ejected. The shotgun in this case was a Remington 870. Once the shooter removed the shell body he was able to continue shooting. It occurred about 18 months ago at a wobble trap event at one of our local clubs.--Nick


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:29 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:23 pm
Posts: 205
Location: so cal
In the last several trips to the range I have seen several 12ga gun clubs lying around with no heads on them. :shock:

_________________
NRA member for LIFE!!
I aim for doughnut shaped patterns so when I miss I can claim a perfect shot.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:41 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:10 pm
Posts: 141
Location: SE Wisconsin
Bigboreblaster wrote:
In the last several trips to the range I have seen several 12ga gun clubs lying around with no heads on them. :shock:


When we go to my local gun club, this is common; but it's from hulls being mowed with the grass.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:24 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:23 pm
Posts: 205
Location: so cal
Earsplitting wrote:
Bigboreblaster wrote:
In the last several trips to the range I have seen several 12ga gun clubs lying around with no heads on them. :shock:


When we go to my local gun club, this is common; but it's from hulls being mowed with the grass.


I thought about your comment for a moment but I don't think it applies at my club because...
1 The shooting area is in the dirt and this is where most hulls are scrounged from
2 none of the tubes showed any blade damage
3 Euro trash makes up about 85% of the hulls but 100% of the naked tubes have been green Remy's since I first noticed this last year.

_________________
NRA member for LIFE!!
I aim for doughnut shaped patterns so when I miss I can claim a perfect shot.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:53 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:27 am
Posts: 3082
Location: North Central West Virginia
Bigboreblaster wrote:
In the last several trips to the range I have seen several 12ga gun clubs lying around with no heads on them. :shock:


They must have been from the same lot of Gun Clubs I purchased from Dick's. I had the same thing happen when shooting a true pair. The head separated from the first shell, and the SA I was using tried to load the second, but it just jammed everything up. We had to get a cleaning rod and run it down the barrel to get the jammed hull out.

This is what it looked like:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:57 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 4977
jimgw wrote:
I've seen that with Gun Club hulls 2 years ago. The metal part looked perfect, it just detached.
I have picked up 3 Gun Club in the past year with no rims on them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:02 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:27 am
Posts: 3082
Location: North Central West Virginia
Cerberus wrote:
jimgw wrote:
I've seen that with Gun Club hulls 2 years ago. The metal part looked perfect, it just detached.
I have picked up 3 Gun Club in the past year with no rims on them.


I quit using them. A couple other people I know have had the same problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:42 am 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:02 am
Posts: 1748
I've had this happen once with a new GC but never with any of my reloads.

This last weekend while scrounging I noticed a few GCs (3 or 4) with no brass attached. Other than not having any brass, they appeared to be very pristine, as in "new" / once fired. I also spotted a couple of red hulls with no brass. I didn't look to see what they were but had the impression they were AAs. ??


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:52 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:36 am
Posts: 1573
Cerberus wrote:
jimgw wrote:
I've seen that with Gun Club hulls 2 years ago. The metal part looked perfect, it just detached.
I have picked up 3 Gun Club in the past year with no rims on them.

Ditto that. I've found fired GC hulls in the "hulls only" buckets minus the steel heads and these were once fired. I haven't (yet) experience a lost head from any of my reloads but I'm not going to say it will never happen.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:34 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:17 pm
Posts: 11
I had several Rem 20 ga. GC heads pull off like that 2 years ago, but nothing recently.

_________________
Bruce

"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:42 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:40 pm
Posts: 282
Location: NE Massachusetts
This certainly sounds like a case of vigorous extraction from autoloaders with rough chambers. Has anyone had this happen with a pump gun or SxS? Maybe they're making newer shells with heads that aren't as well attached, but it seems that they're being ripped off.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:54 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:50 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Sumterville, FL
Reading his thread got me to wondering if there is the possibility of a "perfect storm" where you have one of the new style barrels with a forcing cone that tapers almost all the way to the choke. Would such a forcing cone style allow a "de-headed" hull to be forced far enough down the bore for the next round to fully chamber and fire in a semi-auto action? :?:

_________________
A Temporarily Displaced Texan

NRA Benefactor Life Member
TSRA Life Member
ATA Member
USPSA Member (TY-12055)
NSCA Member

Dave Brown


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Brass separated from plastic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:56 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:50 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Sumterville, FL
FullTang wrote:
This certainly sounds like a case of vigorous extraction from autoloaders with rough chambers. Has anyone had this happen with a pump gun or SxS? Maybe they're making newer shells with heads that aren't as well attached, but it seems that they're being ripped off.


I saw this happen with an O/U and Remington Gun Club hull about three years ago. Of course, in an O/U there is much less danger from the stuck hull because you'll probably see it.



_________________
A Temporarily Displaced Texan

NRA Benefactor Life Member
TSRA Life Member
ATA Member
USPSA Member (TY-12055)
NSCA Member

Dave Brown


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: bczrx, Bing [Bot], Bladeswitcher, Bodycamp13, CapHillSkt, casonet, cbradford, cbxman, colnz, COOTCOMMANDER, Curly N, DEG, dogchaser37, double20, Drew Hause, dubob, DUKFVR, EricB, fishrising, garrisonjoe, Glosterboy, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], H2OFowler247, Half Dog, HenryPeter, hollowisland, icyclefar, ithaca49, Jaspo01, John Henry, Juggernaut1512, KRIEGHOFFK80, Majestic-12 [Bot], Malcolm7, mdlott, MeatSweats, mpolans, omasou, oneounceload, papillonkirby, pops78, pump shooter, Rack-N-Roy, Reds77, Road Man, Rooster booster, shacked, skar, SWPAMike, The Swanny, Ultraman, Vette Jockey2, Wheelspin, xsshooter


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice