ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:56 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 60 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:24 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:43 pm
Posts: 10
Just got off the phone with Buck Run Shooting Supplies and the cost of HeavyWeight 13 is about $1.46 per 1 ounce load....so now I'm leaning towards HeavyWeight 13.




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:28 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:43 pm
Posts: 10
derbyacresbob wrote:
The HW13 #6 shot from Bucks Run Sports Supply would work for ducks at 1,000 fps and the HW13 #2 shot at 1,000 fps would work for geese.

Just for the shot for 1-1/4 oz loads HW13 shot would be right at $1.80 per shell and TSS shot would be about $3.12 per shell.

One ounce of TSS shot is more than enough shot for ducks or geese but at 1,000 to 1,100 fps the shells may not cycle semi-autos.

With TSS shot at 1,000 fps #8-1/2 or #9 shot is good for ducks and #6 or #7 shot will work on geese.


derbyacresbob - TSS shot at $3.12 per 1oz load shell is much less costly than the price I found at tungstenspheres.com. Where can I find the best TSS pricing?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:23 pm 
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:59 pm
Posts: 328
Location: SE MI
Hey, it's about 60 days from the 60 day season and you are gathering data and various info for your interest, great. Alright, how about a little in field chat. Back in the '70s it was one of those blue bird Saturdays and all small game was open, brush busting day. Walking along one of a chain lakes/pond on the right side of the line I flushed a double curl tail greenhead about 45 yds out in the lake. It got about 15 ft high on its vertical flush before a load on $2.79 box of Remington 12ga 1 oz of #6s game or dove loads dropped it beak down in the water the same spot and direction it was facing when flushed. A half a dozen shot did complete pass through of that bird. They were probably only doing about 1150 fps. Then I had to walk all the way back to the car to get the chest waders to retrieve it.

That Rotometals 6 shot is 236 per oz. Lead is 225 per oz, pretty comparable. In the late '70s when steel became mandatory we use to take ducks and shake them when we got them to the canoe and shot would tinkle out of the feathers to the bottom of the canoe, 2s & 4s.lol The bismuth should be applicable even @ just under 1100 fps within deke range and give you a few more pellets to boot for head/neck and wing possibles.

just to mention

_________________
http://www.oneholeproducts.weebly.com FOR YOUR ACCURACY ACCURIZING SLUG SHOTGUN KITS FOR CANTILEVER (INTEGRAL) SCOPE BASE SLUG BARRELS
May your hands be warmed on a frosty day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:41 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:52 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Puyallup, WA
Buy your TSS from Hal (hawglips). He's very easy to deal with and he'll provide load data and knowledgeable advice for his product.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=45323


When you buy from Bucks Run (RSI), get their load data and wads. You'll be looking for it down the road anyhow. A lot of guys like to buy the SAM1 wads unslit. RSI does some funky looking cuts on the pre slit wads. They still work but two of the four slits are not cut straight. I always buy the pre slit wads and then finish cutting to the base on the two straighter slits.
HW13 from Bucks Run (rsi) is tough to beat for cost and effectiveness.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:42 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:42 pm
Posts: 1883
Location: The U.P.'s U.P.
ducksatfirstlight-
Here's an attempt to format your table with spacing restored. I edited some of the headings to conserve some horizontal space. I'll be happy to correct the table if needed.
--Bob

Code:
          Shot  Order                   Cost      Source
Shot      Dens. Amount  Shot     Order  Per 1
Type      g/cc  (oz)    Size     Cost   oz Load
------------------------------------------------------------------
TSS       17.5   16    4mm(#1)   93.40   5.84   tungstenspheres.com
TSS       17.5   16   2.5mm(#7)  89.90   5.62   tungstenspheres.com
TSS       17.5   16    2mm(#9)  112.10   7.01   tungstenspheres.com
ITX 13    13.0   13    24 #4     47.59   1.98   ballisticproducts.com
ITX 13    13.0   13    24 #6     47.59   1.98   ballisticproducts.com
HeavyWt   13.0    ?     ?          ?       ?    reloadingspecialtiesinc.com
HeviShot  12.0   24     #6       76.99   3.21   ballisticproducts.com
Nice Shot 10.2  167     #6       39.60   2.40   niceshotinc.com
ITX 10    10.0  112     #4      153.90   1.37   ballisticproducts.com
ITX       10.0  112     #6      153.90   1.37   ballisticproducts.com
Bismuth    9.7  112     #4      149.97   1.34   ballisticproducts.com
Bismuth    9.7  112     #6      149.97   1.34   ballisticproducts.com



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:58 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:52 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Puyallup, WA
Isn't Nice Shot defunct? Are they even a source at this point?

Hawglips is aout half the money for TSS compared to tungsten sheres AND he provides the value of TESTED load data. My last purchase a year ago was at 48.00/lb. 3.00/oz.

The post at the top of the page has RSI at 23.36/lb in 10 lb bags. 1.46/oz.

Roto Metals is selling bismuth at 169.00 for 10 lb. bottles. 1.06/oz.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:36 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:43 pm
Posts: 10
OnHoPr – great story. I did a fair amount of jump shooting as a kid and know all about those great long walks where you end up with dinner. I’ll never forget the day I learned the difference between a fox squirrel and a grey squirrel. I was on a jump shoot walking with my cousin, who was too young to carry a gun, upstream along a drainage between ponds when we stumbled upon a squirrel eating acorns out in the middle of a clearing. My aim was true. We walked up and couldn’t believe how huge it was. Up until then I had only shot grey squirrels.

I hear you regarding the ineffectiveness of the early steel loads. I started carrying my first shotgun, a 20 gauge youth pump, in the early 80s. I still knocked a bunch of birds down though. My dad and his buddies started calling me Deadeye when I was 10. It was my first season hunting with a gun and we had been sitting in a cold goose pit all morning watching flock after flock after flock of geese fly directly over us but just out of range. They were going from the water roost to other fields and then back to the water. The pit was located in a narrow corn field that had mature evergreens running the length of both sides…and it was located exactly beneath this highway of a flight pattern. You would hear these low geese before you could see them because the huge pines were planted thick together creating a wall of green in both directions. My dad and his hunting buddy were blowing their old wooden Olts like their lives depended on it but we couldn’t even get the geese to look down at us as they blew by just over the tree tops. Frustrating to say the least. By late morning my dad and his buddy had resigned themselves to finishing the thermos of coffee swapping stories while I kept watch. I knew they were going to call it a day soon so I announced I was going to shoot a goose from the next flock. My boast probably made them chuckle. I can’t remember because my ears and eyes were focused and my hands were tight around that 20 gauge loaded with crappy steel shot. When the next flock passed over I stood up as tall as I could, put the bead about 10 feet in front of the lead goose, and pulled the trigger. Well the goose just behind it falls for what seemed like an eternity. It hit the ground dead with a couple pellets in the head. My dad and his buddy both had their jaws on the ground probably after spitting their coffee out. So they started calling me Deadeye – even though I was aiming for a different goose. I’ve made some other lifetime memorable shots over the years but probably like most guys I struggle to be consistent. One day hopefully I’ll figure out why I can miss those close up, easy softball shots but then the same hunt pull off a few tough or long shots.

wildflights – thanks for the link to Hal. I’ll get in touch with him about TSS loads. And yes, the HW13 from RSI looks like the winner regarding highest density/lowest cost. I’m not sure about Nice Shot being defunct. I was just gathering data from the web and came across their site.

pitted bore – thanks for formatting that table.

Gun update – I noticed most of the 18.5” tactical barrels are bored cylinder so you cannot attach a suppressor. I ended up buying a 20” barrel with accu chokes from Mossberg for $222 shipped. I have an old 500 pump with a fixed modified 28” barrel. It was $125 bucks used in the mid 80’s – this was my step-up gun from the 20 gauge. It’s a really light gun already so with a 20” barrel it should be about as short and as light as I can get. I’ll post a report after it arrives and I get a chance to shoot it suppressed.

Thanks again for the help everyone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:47 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:13 pm
Posts: 105
Salvos are awesome, congrats!! I actually had made an integrally suppressed H&R 12 ga, it's a beast, too, lol. But stupid quiet, especially if I take the time and put some wet rags inside. Like 22lr quiet, but deeper thump sound.

As for subsonic loads, I switched to stacked loads, as in over powder cards, cork, shot (sleeved) and over shot card glued in (crimped in your guns). I've found that these are easier to drop pressures and make subsonic loads. Along with this I don't have to mess around with what wads I have to match with what powder, etc. I make my own cards and cork wads and sleeves. Get in touch with Circle Fly and Buffalo and other places and ask them about stacked loading, they'll set ya right and help ya out. It's also more environmentally safe, no plastic wads.

Another thing I've found is that in dealing with subsonic, things change kill wise. For instance, I shot a pig with a lyman 525 slug, at higher velocities it'd be a dead pig, at subsonic I just left him with a perfect dot where the slug hit!!! The slug was too broad, with shot it's different though. Point is, most go up 1 or 2 sizes in shot to deliver a killing blow. Think 22 at subsonic vs 38 special subsonic, BIG difference in how far they'll reach and velocity/killing power lasting.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:17 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Posts: 9
Just picked up the post, I was looking @ the same topic last season. Dave & Cook off were spot on in the help they provided. TSS has a website Tungsten Super Shot that Hawglips mods, join the group. Also check out Natchez Shooters Supply for Hevi Shot in size 2 or BB's, look in the clearance or reloading section, last I saw it went up to $129 for 10 lbs(it was $100)! Still a great price even with shipping. I was playing around with a Metro tube trying for the same effect you are looking for. On the topic of Game wardens, they will check your shells with a magnet first, if you tell them you reload with Kent Impact or Bismuth they will take them to the truck & eye them really hard & give them back to you. Oh just dbl checked Natchez they are out of stock @ $138/lb, sorry.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:47 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:43 pm
Posts: 10
duck43, I connected with Hal and have some TSS and am planning to make some shells this weekend.

Have a couple gun's done. Not sure how to add an image but here is a link:

cpg1410/displayimage.php?pos=-22695


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:08 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:53 pm
Posts: 285
Location: Hampton, VA
Anybody ever end up with a decently quiet subsonic nontoxic load?

The club across the creek lost their lease and property will be developed with some houses being 300 to 400 yards from our blinds. Trying to figure out a way to be a good neighbor.

I'm thinking 1.25 ounce of Bismuth 2s or 1 ounce of HW13 4 at 900 fps would get me a 30 yard load at sea level.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:40 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:49 pm
Posts: 3547
Location: Mormon Mecca
Undrcoverrednek wrote:
Anybody ever end up with a decently quiet subsonic nontoxic load?

The club across the creek lost their lease and property will be developed with some houses being 300 to 400 yards from our blinds. Trying to figure out a way to be a good neighbor.

I'm thinking 1.25 ounce of Bismuth 2s or 1 ounce of HW13 4 at 900 fps would get me a 30 yard load at sea level.
Contact Ballistic Products via a phone call and find out what they have that will produce what you seek.

_________________
Bob Hicks, from Mormon Mecca
I’m 78 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don’t mind.”
Image
Retired


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:05 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am
Posts: 3656
Location: UK, England, Britain
Undrcoverrednek wrote:
Anybody ever end up with a decently quiet subsonic nontoxic load?

The club across the creek lost their lease and property will be developed with some houses being 300 to 400 yards from our blinds. Trying to figure out a way to be a good neighbor.

I'm thinking 1.25 ounce of Bismuth 2s or 1 ounce of HW13 4 at 900 fps would get me a 30 yard load at sea level.


i think i might have some bismuth information, dunno how quiet theyd be though, what is your chamber length?
cook.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:38 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am
Posts: 3656
Location: UK, England, Britain
rethinking the whole thing, bismuth, you`d have to go up very big shot, because its less dense. it might be a pain to develop a shell thats going to be rubbish anyway, but you can look into having a greendot load with bismuth. it should do the business. i use A1 because thats about similar burn rate.
1,1/4 oz lead has been reported shot with clays powder. there was a post quite recent.

if you wanted perfirmance, probably T15-18 would be better off. although i`ve never reloaded them as subsonics. i dont think i have a clue because the wadding is a big issue. with normal slow powder it will be loud anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:30 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5015
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
There was an article in the "American Rifleman" back in the lead shot days about the "Low Velocity Principle". The article said the shot (lead) had to be at least #4 as I recall. Obviously, the bigger & denser the shot, the better it works. I remember one day hunting geese in N. Dakota. It was very windy & cold. I don't like to quote distances unless I measure them. I am a land surveyor & have measured distances for a living for over 40 yrs. I can tell you without a doubt, distance can be deceptive & it is very often over estimated. I had a guy that wanted to fight, I thought he was going to hire a mob hit on me because I questioned how far he was killing ducks with steel. Anyway, everybody was shooting steel except me & my partner. He was shooting bismuth & I had bismuth & some nice shot. You could see the feathers move when the steel hit the birds & actually hear it hit. Me & my partner killed all the geese killed by our group. I made a direct hit on a Canada & took my eyes off him to swing on another bird. When I looked back, he was gone. At the end of the hunt, a Guy from another group came walking up with a dead goose & said, "I believe this is your goose". He flew over 100 yds. after being hit with a factory 10 ga. load of 1 7/8 oz. Winchester bismuth. He was well within range & I could see the feathers move when I hit him in the chest! Long story short, I like bismuth but when the birds are coming over with their oxygen masks on, particularly when it is cold & windy, I like something denser. However, Heavy 13 will kill as far as my ability to hit anything & I killed a mallard so high up hunting in Manitoba that the guides eyes got big as saucers & he started chewing on his upper lip! I have probably talked too much already but since we are telling sea stories, I have killed tons of ducks with 7/8 oz. reloads of #6 lead in my 20 ga. Elsie. I have also killed more than one mallard with #8 lead (it was legal then). #8 anything, except maybe TSS, has never been a good duck load but that just happened to be what was in the gun when the ducks appeared. They will work if the bird is close & you hit them hard! Anyway, I'll shut up now except to say I have 20 lbs. of #2 Hevi Shot. I bet they would make excellent sub sonic loads!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:25 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:53 pm
Posts: 285
Location: Hampton, VA
I ordered the BPI subsonic load sheet, but it only contains lead loads. I will call per the suggestion.

Cookoff,
I can shoot any length 12 gauge in either a double barrel or pump action. I realize I'll need large bismuth shot such as No. 2, but 1.25 oz should give me around 120 pellets. I truly only need to shoot mallards and an occasional goose within 30 yards. I think the pattern will have enough pellets for that.

I'm not looking for a James Bond move silencer quiet, but I am looking for a nontoxic load that will bring down mallard size ducks within 30 yards and and sounds something more like a pneumatic tool. The goal is to hunt in my existing locations and not wake up the new (300 yards away) neighbors 25 minutes before sunrise every hunt.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:59 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 607
With a 1.25 oz load of 9.6 Bismuth #2's pushed by 29 grs of Longshot it'll kill any Waterfowl
alive inside 35 yds and if you need a little more , you can Buffer it !

I've shot enough of it to know , IMHO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:29 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5015
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
I didn't measure the distance but I killed a turkey on the wing grave yard dead at what I would guess was about 60 yds., likely over 60 yds.. The load was a factory Winchester 10 ga. load of 1 7/8 #2 bismuth. They don't show a velocity. I also shot a Canada goose incoming, directly in the breast with the same load. It died but only after flying 100 yds. or so. I don't know how far it was but less than 60 yds.. So what does that mean? I don't know. I also have to wonder how some people always know exactly how far birds are when they shoot them & almost invariably, the range is an even increment of 10 or 5 yards. Overall, I have a good opinion of bismuth.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:55 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:53 pm
Posts: 285
Location: Hampton, VA
Thanks for sharing your experiences with bismuth.

I and the original poster have a very specific goal to accomplish, which is find a quiet load that doesn't disturb neighbors too much.

This quiet load is going to have tradeoffs in performance. It will be lower velocity, which means reduced effective range. Hunting with a reduced effective range means knowing how far away birds are when you shoot. For me, that means having them over decoys that I know the range of. I'm 100% ok with not taking passing shots at birds that are out far and passing by.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Subsonic Waterfowl Load Questions
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:26 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5015
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Sorry for my rambling. Lengthy discussions tend to stray from the main topic a bit. The point I was alluding to is bismuth is almost as good as lead. Actually a good bismuth load is better than a bad lead load of deformed soft shot. Tungsten is better yet! You can see if you study the ballistic tables that high density shot in large sizes retains lethal energy quite a ways out there & slower loads tend to pattern better! Loads of 1000 fps can kill beyond 35 yds.!




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 60 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 230rn, Basstar, bayoushooter7, Billsnature, Bing [Bot], Blackdog56, Bladeswitcher, cbradford, cfoster, chemclay, Colt99, Cookr21, Curly N, CZMark, Darkhorse60, David Spear, DavidRamey, Denver1911, Drew Hause, eaglerjs, Edwin D, EricB, Ernest T, fishrising, floridaford, fredvon4, from_the_plaines, Gard72977, George Z, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, HenryPeter, Jaspo01, Johnnyhonda440, Keylimecoconut, kpag, Litespeed, lossking, mactownbob, Magnett, Majestic-12 [Bot], maverickmd, oneounceload, pitandremington, pump shooter, railroad, raptor0443, Rockett0, Sheatho444*, SMP190, StephenK, swampcreek, SWPAMike, Tailchaser, The Rattler, Tidefanatic, TrentJAX640, twohigh, Waldyo, wjonessc, Yahoo [Bot], YevetS, zxcvbnm


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice