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 Post subject: High velocity (~1300fps) 2.5 inch 410 loads
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:48 pm
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Location: Ohio
I bought a case of the new HS AA 410 sporting clays. Well I have shot them all I have gotten a bag of the new wads required for them. The problem is all the data I can find is around 1200fps but the loads from the factory are at 1300fps. That 100fps make a suprising difference when shooting skeet, especially on the station 3-5. Any help on working up a 1300fps load would be greatly appriciated.

Thanks
Matt




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 Post subject: Re: High velocity (~1300fps) 2.5 inch 410 loads
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:52 am
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It may not be possible to duplicate the factory rounds at this time. Not all powders used by the factory are available to reloaders. The 4th edition Lyman Shotgun Manual lists some loads over 1250 fps using Win 296 but old style AA hulls. The 50 fps difference is negligable so it could be an adequate substitute.


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 Post subject: Re: High velocity (~1300fps) 2.5 inch 410 loads
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 12:03 am 
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MCBirch,
Shoot me an email Tuesday, I remember some recipes from a Wing and Shot magazine last year that achieved 1300-1400fps for 28gauge and 410 bores. The mag is in my office and we'll see if this helps you.

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 Post subject: Re: High velocity (~1300fps) 2.5 inch 410 loads
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 7:19 pm 
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Location: Reading, Ohio
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/shotshel/41winaahspla.php
Here you go several 1300 fps loads
Mike


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 Post subject: Re: High velocity (~1300fps) 2.5 inch 410 loads
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:39 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 11:47 pm
Posts: 24
I've recently become nearly addicted to skeet, sporting clays, and doves (got 14 of the lil' grey rockets just this evening) with a .410. I reload it alot and have recently begun chronographing some of my loads.
With all my shotgun loads I strive for 1200 fps as it simplifies leads, but I find little difference in the way I hit whether I use an 1125 fps 11/16 oz. 3" load or a 1300 fps 1/2 oz. 2 1/2" load. As far as actual loads, this is what I've come up with: Win. AA hull, (NOT the new HS) CCI209 primer, 16.0 grs. H110 1/2 oz. shot for 1305 fps. Another is with the Remington SP (not STS) skeet hull. It uses WW209 primer, 16.0 grs. H110 and 1/2 oz. shot for 1275 fps. Bumping the charge to 17.0 grs. nets 1317 fps.
My standard all around target load is the Rem. SP Skeet hull, CCI209 primer, 16.0 grs. H110, 1/2 oz. shot for 1262 fps. All these loads are based out of the Lyman 4th Edition Shotshell manual. These are all below max. and safe in my shotgun, but use at your own risk.
When I get a little spare time, I'll be working up some loads with WW296.
Good luck,
Greg

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 Post subject: Re: High velocity (~1300fps) 2.5 inch 410 loads
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:24 am 
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Location: Ohio
Thanks for all the help. I used the Hodgdon data and loaded up few boxes. I am very happy with the loads and the new HS AA hull loaded really nicely in my Mec 600 JR. Thanks again for the help.

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: High velocity (~1300fps) 2.5 inch 410 loads
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:57 am 
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mcbirch,
I've read every past Wing and Shot magazine in my collection, which is substantial. Although referenced in 3 articles, the recipe is never given. They do give recipes for 1250fps 3/4 oz 3" loads and some 1200fps 2.5" loads but none of the super fast 1/2 oz loads they so dearly embrace in the articles themselves.
I have emailed the authors of two of those articles and will let you know if they answer.

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 Post subject: Re: High velocity (~1300fps) 2.5 inch 410 loads
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 7:26 pm 
Listen to uggieguy. Get off the high velocity kick. Any advantage you think you are getting by using 1300 F.P.S. loads with #7 1/2, or smaller shot is all in your head, not on the bird. the high velocity is working against you in several ways, mostly in worse patterns.


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 Post subject: Re: High velocity (~1300fps) 2.5 inch 410 loads
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:48 pm
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Location: Ohio
I afraid I have to disagree with you here. From shooting the orginial loads for skeet the extra velocity (~200fps) does make a big difference in my lead. The extra velocity also stretched out length wise my pattern and spreads them out. When shooting skeet a larger pattern is better since the ranges are short and I have to over come a fixed Improved Cylinder on my Winchester 9410. And a nice side to this High Velocity load is loading #5 shot instead of #8 for some excellent squirrel loads.

Later
mcb


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 Post subject: Re: High velocity (~1300fps) 2.5 inch 410 loads
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 9:54 pm 
here we go again. The only shot size to use on squirrels should be .22 long rifle.


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 Post subject: Re: High velocity (~1300fps) 2.5 inch 410 loads
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 11:47 pm
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mcbirch wrote:
I afraid I have to disagree with you here. From shooting the orginial loads for skeet the extra velocity (~200fps) does make a big difference in my lead. The extra velocity also stretched out length wise my pattern and spreads them out. When shooting skeet a larger pattern is better since the ranges are short and I have to over come a fixed Improved Cylinder on my Winchester 9410. And a nice side to this High Velocity load is loading #5 shot instead of #8 for some excellent squirrel loads.

Later
mcb


Have you actually patterned your shotgun to verify these claims? It would be very difficult to determine shot string length and pattern size without extensive patterning.
I don't understand what you have to "overcome" with your improved cylinder. My .410 SxS has screw-in chokes; SK1, IMP. CYL., and MOD. I've tried them all and break WAY more birds with the IC/MOD combo. And of that combo, I use the barrel with the IC tube for singles, period.
I've shot many, many rounds of skeet with a load that chrono's a shade over 1300 fps. Due to a change of powder, the load I currently shoot plods along at an average 1185 fps. I simply can't tell the difference in leads or the number of birds broken.
Greg

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 Post subject: Re: High velocity (~1300fps) 2.5 inch 410 loads
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:10 am 
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Location: Ohio
I have patterned the shotgun a little bit and the higher velocity does open the pattern up a little. This is what I ment by over coming my fixed impoved cylinder, the extra velocity causes it to shoot a little more open. I have not done extensive patterning to say exactly how much. As for stringing the shot I thought that was pretty much a given the higher velocity loads almost alway string out longer patterns for a given wad and choke.

I had been shooting reloads in Remington hulls since I got the gun last year. I was using Alliant 2400 and the new 410 powder. In the Remington hull the load data I was using was about 1100 fps. Those Remington hulls (non-STS) don't last long and so I thought I would try some of the new Winchester AA High Strength hulls. The only way I could get them was to order them so I ordered a case of loaded sporting clays loads in the new HS hull. At the time I ordered them mostly to get the hulls not for the high velocity loads. Well of course I had to shoot them so I used them when shooting skeet. Trap is a bit long for a 410 and I don't get many chances to shoot sporting clays. I had been shooting pretty consisten 15-18 birds not bad but not great either. When I started shooting the new AA HS sporting clays loads. My scored jumped up to a pretty consistent 17-20 an on more than one ocasion its been as high as 22. When I finally finished that case I went back to shooting the Remington reloads, while ordered the special HS wads for the new hulls. My score dropped back down while shooting the Remington reloads. I started looking for a load that would replicate the factory AA HS load because it seem to help my scores. greyghost was kind enough to point me towards Hodgdon's web site and they had safe load data that would replicate the factory load of 1300 fps that was orginally loaded in those shell so I got the componets and loaded up a few boxes and tried them. I was very pleased with the results and finished loading the case of shell. On top of the high velocity these new hulls seem like they will hold up longer then the regular Remingtons and they do crimp a lot nicer in my Mec 600 Jr.

The additional performance on the skeet range could all be in my head? But the load does seem to work well for me. I appriciate all the help and advice from everyone even if I did not agree with it all.

Thanks
Matt


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 Post subject: Re: High velocity (~1300fps) 2.5 inch 410 loads
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:01 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 11:47 pm
Posts: 24
mcbirch wrote:
I have patterned the shotgun a little bit and the higher velocity does open the pattern up a little.

<snip>

Matt, I highly suspect your patterns opened up due to higher pressure rather than higher velocities. .410's with their lack of "cushion" in the wad, are subject to this. If you want to find out for sure, pattern a 1/2 oz. load loaded w/2400 (which operates at pressures over 11K or so) and compare it to a 1/2 oz. load H110 or WW296 is used. With the latter two powders, pressures can easily be kept under 9K and 7K isn't at all impossible.
In my .410 loading (1/2 oz.) I build my loads around the pressure and strive to keep my pressures in the 8K range so as to ease shot deformation and improve pattern density and uniformity.
FWIW
Greg



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