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 Post subject: Re: New Reloaders - make it easy on yourself
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Posts: 1759
Location: Eastern Oregon
OldStuffer, I have about 15 lbs of Red Dot in the old cardboard "drum". Came from the estate of Doctor in Wallowa County that was a shooter in the 50's.60's. Unopened when I got it about 6 years ago.. odor good, color good, only indication of aged product was the red dots were a very faded pink. Did a little chronograph work with it and a new can I bought. 15 loads of each and results were so close you could not have identified which was which. Larry




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 Post subject: Re: New Reloaders - make it easy on yourself
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:04 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 5596
Location: Newton Kansas
Hooty wrote:
Thank you for this information, I never considered the higher pressure for a more complete burn while I was researching components. As well, I did receive the compression Formed AA’s, but have some of the new AA grey hulls. Will start with the old style based on what you stated and have read before. Thank you both for your insight, have seen these other powders locally as well. Many thanks.

A lot of people do not consider it, often until they get into a Cold Weather problem or complain about "dirty burning", so don't feel bad about "ignoring it", especially when starting out.
There is a LOT of "stuff" in this hobby when starting out.

What Curley says is correct, Smokeless Gunpowder MUST HAVE a certain amount of back-pressure against it to burn properly, and shotshells are THE LOWEST cartridge pressure there is. Our loads need all the "help" they can get.
People "get away" with low-pressure loads a lot, when they are dressed in short sleeves in the sun sipping iced lemonade.
Shells that are sitting in the back of a pickup truck all day in between walking milo fields a foot deep in snow get testy and unstable when run at 7-8,000psi.
10-12,000psi, they work as reliably as gravity.

My "standard load" Dad & I loaded oodles of (and I still do) is that AACF hull, Winchester AA12 (white) wads (or clone), "0" Bar, #7-1/2 shot.
Any american 209 primer you can find.
It doesn't get ANY simpler.
Go have some fun hammering clays with it, or Doves, or Quail, Prairie Chicken, etc.
Fill 'em up and go have fun.

_________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: New Reloaders - make it easy on yourself
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:23 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 5596
Location: Newton Kansas
llc wrote:
OldStuffer, I have about 15 lbs of Red Dot in the old cardboard "drum". Came from the estate of Doctor in Wallowa County that was a shooter in the 50's.60's. Unopened when I got it about 6 years ago.. odor good, color good, only indication of aged product was the red dots were a very faded pink. Did a little chronograph work with it and a new can I bought. 15 loads of each and results were so close you could not have identified which was which. Larry

Doesn't surprise me a bit.

People do all sorts of Hand Wringing and Gnashing Of Teeth over "lot to lot variation", primarily because of all the other people's Hand Wringing and Gnashing Of Teeth across the internet and not because of ANY volume of first-hand information they themselves have.

There isn't a single component of gunpowder that hasn't "changed" in the 140yrs or so since Smokeless was invented commercially, and MANY MANY gunpowder plants have burned down, moved, closed, sold, opened, closed, been bought and sold, etc, etc, etc.
Not a single gunpowder today, is "the same" as it was in the 1890's, the 1900's, the teens, 20's, the 40's, and on and on.

YET, the tolerances of those SAME gunpowders, released to us in Canister Grade, are so close to "The Originals" (many of which are over 100 years old now) that they are, for all practical purposes, "the same" as they ever were.
The "differences" are so small as to be undetectable without a full ballistics lab (which I do not have).

What is even more "complicating" is that SOME (not a lot of them) of the 150+ gunpowders for sale today ARE EXACTLY THE SAME as other gunpowders.
This is typically a case right now with Hodgdon gunpowders of which several ARE Hodgdon-named lots of the same Winchester and IMR powders.
They make one batch, label the canisters Winchester or IMR, they make the next batch, label the canisters Hodgdon.
Load data shows it, people have mailed/e-mailed Hodgdon and asked, and been confirmed.
The same thing happens "Down Under" where Hodgdon is manufacturing/having manufactured many of it's rifle powders by ADI, and ADI also sells canister-grade gunpowder.
ADI labels one batch for themselves, labels the next for Hodgdon, and so on.

_________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: New Reloaders - make it easy on yourself
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:02 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:58 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Texas
Thanks as well on the information about the older MEC charge bars, I also got a 12 ga. 2 and was able to follow the information to find out was 1-1/8 oz. 23 grains of Green Dot. Thanks again for all the great experiences and insights.


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 Post subject: Re: New Reloaders - make it easy on yourself
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:18 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 5596
Location: Newton Kansas
If one looks on The Internet, one can find the OLD (and I mean O.L.D.) MEC Charge BAR Chart (NOT to be confused with the Bushing Chart.

I actually have one (came with dad's 310 when he bought it new).

That chart lists multiple loads possible with each bar, there are/were A LOT of bars, separated by Gauge and Number.
The following are 12-gauge bars:
0H
0
0A
1
1B
1W
2
2B
2W
3
6
7
8B
8D
8G
8W
9
9A
9W
10
11
12
12W
13
13A
13W
14
14A
14W
15
16W.

The 0 Bar for instance throws:
18.5gr of Red or Green Dot,
21gr of PB,
20gr of 700X,
25.5gr of SR7625,
22gr of AA125-Grey B

All 3 "0" bars throw 1-1/8th ounces of shot, the 0H throws around 2.5gr less powder, the 0A throws around 1.5grains more powder, obviously, exactitude depends on which powder.

Bars sold for $3.50 apiece, and you could order a custom bar to suit your personal loading for the cost of $1 additional.

You had to know the bar gauge, the #2 10-gauge bar threw 2 oz. of lead.
The #2 12-gauge bar threw 1-1/8th (if I am reading the blurry .pdf right)
The #2 16ga bar threw 1 ounce.
the #2 20ga bar threw 7/8 oz.
The #2 28ga bar also threw 7/8oz, but it threw 1-gr less SR4756 than the 20-ga bar.

_________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: New Reloaders - make it easy on yourself
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:32 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 4280
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
I started loading shotgun shells in 1961 with a "Lee Loader" for my LC Smith 20 ga.. Then shortly after Pop bought a Herters, model 49 maybe, shotshell reloader. Pop believed in buying in quantity & I just finished the last keg of Red Dot he bought in the 60's a few years ago. Back then all hulls were paper & all wads were card & filler. It wasn't long until Remington came out with their plastic shells you could run through the washing machine & still shoot, as they advertised. Alcan had their gas seal plastic wad (PGS) & about that time Winchester came out with their compression formed hull. I still have that Lee Loader but had to stop using it when steel hull cases became the norm.


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 Post subject: Re: New Reloaders - make it easy on yourself
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:16 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 5596
Location: Newton Kansas
When I fully took over Dad's Stuff, I still have some Federal Champion paper hulls, and 12-gauge fiber wads.
Those fibers are slowly being used up in Slug Load Development with BPI's AQ slugs.

I long ago shot up the Alcan Air Wedges (IIRC, and IF I long after figured out correctly what they were).

So dad started int hat "transitional" time as well, his MEC 310 uses a sleeve around the hull for support of the papers and everything (almost all die functions) index off that sleeve, the wad guide and the final crimper.
It really shows it's lineage to the ACME (predecessor) that I was given as a RustedSolid Project.

_________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: New Reloaders - make it easy on yourself
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:49 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 4280
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Not that it is better or "right", just because I do it or anything but due to the fact that I reload multiple sizes & types of shot, I mostly use adjustable bars & set them with a scale. I also still use my old Lee shot measure & check it against the scale. Some loads using Hevi Shot & Steel powder dictate weighing the powder & shot for every load but I don't get to shoot 500 ducks in a day. The good news is they kill better than lead ever did!


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 Post subject: Re: New Reloaders - make it easy on yourself
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:06 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 5519
Similar thread for new skeet reloaders -

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... t&start=20


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 Post subject: Re: New Reloaders - make it easy on yourself
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:16 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:52 pm
Posts: 1
As you can see I'm an extremely new guy here. So, this is what has brought me to this thread. I am looking into reloading for my .410 semi-auto. As I look at the offerings MEC has, their single stages have 2 crimp stations and their progressives have 3 crimp stations. Where I'm hung up with this is, for my semi-auto do I need the 3rd station that taper crimps or does the single stage 2 crimp press work just as well? I lean toward the single stage but I would like to hear from those of you who have had actual experience before I commit. For right now I don't want to get into what kind of volume I plan on reloading, that kind of stuff. Once I get my question answered all the other factors will fall into place for me. I don't want to buy a press and find out that it wasn't the right choice.




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