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 Post subject: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:29 am
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Location: Port St Lucie FL
I recently purchased some Winchester 20 ga game loads by mistake when shopping for target ammo, they broke clays very well but prompt this question. Does anyone now why game loads typically use 6 fold crimps and target shells use 8 fold? Just curiosity on my part.




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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:41 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
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Location: Phoenixville PA
I don't know why. They seem to shoot the same. But I have reloaded both (using the proper crimp starter for each), and they both reloaded and shot identically well, and broke targets (clays) very well. Personally, I don't think it makes a difference, but I do like all my shells to have the same crimps so I don't have to keep track of which is which and change crimp starters. (And yes, it DOES make difference in crimping, at least for me.)

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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:57 am 
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Ballistically there is no difference.....8 points are just showing off!! :lol:

Actually I like 6 point better, especially when working with new hulls.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:51 am 
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I use a MEC 8 fold metal crimp starter on both. Works fine. No sorting necessary.

I use a MEC 8 fold metal crimp starter on paper hulls too. Works fine.

Life can be easier if you let it.


Last edited by ShowMe on Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:20 am 
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These are throw away hulls for me so reloading isn't a factor. The low priced target shells by the same manufacturer seem identical aside from crimps. Some pictures posted below, must be that extra 10 fps that makes the game loads "high velocity" huh? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
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Location: Attica, Mi
With the new plastic crimp starters I grind out the ribs. Make it smooth like the one recommended for paper shells. No more switching crimp starters.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
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Location: Newton Kansas
6-point crimps are harder to un-fold, this adds initial burn pressure to the slower powders used in "field" loads.

6-point crimps work fine on skived hulls, BUT, 8-point crimps DO NOT work well on UN-skived hulls.

8 and 6 point crimps are NOT "always equally interchangeable", even though they are OFTEN.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:10 pm 
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OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
6-point crimps are harder to un-fold, this adds initial burn pressure to the slower powders used in "field" loads.

6-point crimps work fine on skived hulls, BUT, 8-point crimps DO NOT work well on UN-skived hulls.

8 and 6 point crimps are NOT "always equally interchangeable", even though they are OFTEN.


Interesting, I thought someone might have some insight, thanks. Perhaps the 6 point crimp accounts for that extra 10 fps! Declaring the field loads "high velocity" with just that much difference is some great marketing spin. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:20 pm 
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Well, I'm glad the same crimp starter works for some folks but it creates problems for me if I don't use the right one. You can tell how much regard they have for the public's I.Q. when you see pictures of bunnies & critters on some boxes & clay targets on others so we know what we can shoot with the shells! Do you really think they know what the velocity is within 10 FPS? 1200 fps. is more than enough for 90+% of the game I shoot. With the exception of steel, high velocity is a marketing gimmic in most cases, per my experience. I increase shot size & payload first, as a general rule. However, that isn't set in concrete!


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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:04 pm 
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Hulls that were once 6 fold hulls are noisier while inserting wads.
More worthless observation.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:24 pm 
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I have noticed that some older winchester field loads that used the compression formed AA case here in Australia that were loaded with shot sizes from #BB to #10 had 6 star crimps for the larger shot sizes and 8 star crimps for the smaller sizes. The cut-off seemed to be about #3 shot.
Have seen some #3 shells with both types.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:44 pm 
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6 point crimps don't increase chamber pressure over 8 point crimps.......or velocity.

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 Post subject: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:58 pm 
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I think it depends on what is decided upon over coffee on a particular day. Case in point I have several boxes of the older Winchester Super X (white box 1970s) compression formed hunting ammo in 16 ga loaded with 1 1/8 oz of number 7 1/2 shot. (There was no 16 ga AA target ammo). ALL boxes are marked “MAX” on the lid. Some boxes are 8 point crimp while others are 6 point crimp with the closure point of the 6 point crimp melted in place. The 6 point shells are high brass while the 8 point shells are lower brass. All appear to contain the same load. Go figure.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:28 am
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While we are on the subject of crimps, does everybody on SGW use the same pre-crimp rule for both the 6 & 8 point crimp, keeping the hole of the crimp the diameter of a pencil eraser ???


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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:59 pm 
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casonet wrote:
Some boxes are 8 point crimp while others are 6 point crimp with the closure point of the 6 point crimp melted in place. The 6 point shells are high brass while the 8 point shells are lower brass. All appear to contain the same load. Go figure.


Ditto these 12Ga field loads, the 6 point shells are 'heat sealed', the 8 points are not, cases identical otherwise though.

When reloaded, the 6 pointers occasionally leave a hole in the centre of the crimp if a piece of the shell was torn off on original firing.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:09 pm 
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al1969brown wrote:
While we are on the subject of crimps, does everybody on SGW use the same pre-crimp rule for both the 6 & 8 point crimp, keeping the hole of the crimp the diameter of a pencil eraser ???

If the final crimp doesn't leak pellets, it's good.

I don't measure pre-crimps.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:48 pm 
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I just change the crimp head not the setting.
if I got a hole and my hulls are the same length I fix it.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:44 am 
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Maybe they they use a different (cheaper?) plastic or can skip a step (skiving?) with 6 fold crimps thinking that 6 fold crimps will not make field loads less desirable. But then, who buys Super-targets because of their reloading qualities?


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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:00 am 
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Swirls and hole all have a direct relationship to the length of the hull itself. I load a lot of gun clubs and they vary in length so much that I get every kind of imaginable crimp in the finished product. I am NOT going to sort the hulls by length and adjust the machine by batch of hull length. An occasional swirl doesn’t bother me and neither does a hole as long as it holds the shot in. I’ve seen plenty of factory ammo with the same afflictions. Call me lazy, but that’s the way I do it.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 v 8 fold crimp
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:25 pm 
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I have an older MEC setup. The crimp starter is flat--no 6 or 8 poin tribs. It crimps both 6 and 8 point reloads just fine. I don't understand why they went to the new ones with ribs.




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