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 Post subject: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:05 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:52 am
Posts: 5
I know there are a lot of posts regarding 20ga Red Dot and how it's not a good idea. My father and I acquired a Pacific 366 auto loader years ago, but never set it up. Now that I am in the process of setting it up, it comes factory set for certain loads. On the cover of the booklet, it shows 20ga 2 3/4 - 13.5gr Red Dot-7/8oz shot. It doesn't list any hulls either. It's interesting that I can't find this load data for 20ga. I do have some old Herqules books that show red dot loads, just not 13.5gr. Whats your thoughts?




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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:51 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:49 pm
Posts: 200
Those loads go back to the days of paper straight wall hulls and nitro over powder wads with multiple wad columns. Red Dot is too fast for today's plastic wads and taper wall hulls for 7/8 oz. in a 20 ga..


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:51 pm
Posts: 1037
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Matthunt wrote:
Whats your thoughts?



Use the most current information available.


Steve

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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:15 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:52 am
Posts: 5
Actually looking through an old Hercules book, it shows red dot charges for Federal plastic target shells, win aa, rem/peters, etc. I did just find a 13.5gn load. For Federal waa20 wad Fed 209 primer.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:47 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 4305
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Red dot could be used with modern components but apparently, according to popular wisdom, it gets a little to close to red line pressure to be desirable. Particularly in 20 ga. tubes. Red Dot was my standard 20 ga. 7/8 oz. powder but as previously stated, cases were paper & wads were card & fiber at that time.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:04 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:52 am
Posts: 5
geometric wrote:
Red dot could be used with modern components but apparently, according to popular wisdom, it gets a little to close to red line pressure to be desirable. Particularly in 20 ga. tubes. Red Dot was my standard 20 ga. 7/8 oz. powder but as previously stated, cases were paper & wads were card & fiber at that time.



Thanks! I'll get some unique and get the right bushing for the press. Unless you recommend another powder.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:01 pm
Posts: 6492
I like 20/28 for 20 gauge.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:02 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 4305
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Either will serve you well. I use Unique. Never used 2028 but hear it is great stuff! I bought some WSF but haven't used much of it yet so won't comment.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:44 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 262
geometric wrote:
Either will serve you well. I use Unique. Never used 2028 but hear it is great stuff! I bought some WSF but haven't used much of it yet so won't comment.


I had some WSF from loading pistols and decided to give it a go, it worked great in my 28ga load, used it so I go with long shot for 20+28 works fine for me


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:20 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 949
if your gonna load 12ga also, green dot will do both rather well.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:11 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 5535
fiver wrote:
if your gonna load 12ga also, green dot will do both rather well.


Not by current standards.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:01 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 10707
Location: Phoenixville PA
Green dot is great for 3/4 oz. 20 ga. loads, but Alliant has dropped it years ago apparently for safe use in 20 ga. 7/8 oz. loads.

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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:32 pm
Posts: 441
Matthunt wrote:
Actually looking through an old Hercules book, it shows red dot charges for Federal plastic target shells, win aa, rem/peters, etc. I did just find a 13.5gn load. For Federal waa20 wad Fed 209 primer.


Note that a FED209 (discontinued) is not the same as a FED209A.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:06 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 10:23 pm
Posts: 165
1996 Alliant guide listed AA 20 ga 3/4 oz Red Dot 12.0 grain load with W209 primer and WAA20**wad at 10,900psi. (**is addition of two .135" .410 bore cards) I would be comfortable using CB1075-20 wad with this load. However I do prefer Green Dot and Unique in the 20 ga.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:11 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 21574
Matthunt wrote:
geometric wrote:
Red dot could be used with modern components but apparently, according to popular wisdom, it gets a little to close to red line pressure to be desirable. Particularly in 20 ga. tubes. Red Dot was my standard 20 ga. 7/8 oz. powder but as previously stated, cases were paper & wads were card & fiber at that time.



Thanks! I'll get some unique and get the right bushing for the press. Unless you recommend another powder.


Universal also does a good job with 20 gauge

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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:17 pm 
Presentation Grade
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:43 pm
Posts: 595
Location: Rural Michigan
700x shows up in the old IMR books for 20ga loads too.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:13 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 5626
Location: Newton Kansas
Back when people used actual 20-gauge shotguns, not tissue-paper-thin tubes shoved inside 12-gauge shotguns.

The "old" red dot, green dot, or 700X loads won't do the tiniest bit of harm to actual real 20-gauge shotguns.

But, since the people who use tubes can't manage to "go low", the old load data has to be, er,, ummm, "revised downward" (being nice) to try to stop the Tube Crowd from screaming constantly over cracked tubes.

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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:43 am 
Presentation Grade
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:43 pm
Posts: 595
Location: Rural Michigan
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
Back when people used actual 20-gauge shotguns, not tissue-paper-thin tubes shoved inside 12-gauge shotguns.

The "old" red dot, green dot, or 700X loads won't do the tiniest bit of harm to actual real 20-gauge shotguns.

But, since the people who use tubes can't manage to "go low", the old load data has to be, er,, ummm, "revised downward" (being nice) to try to stop the Tube Crowd from screaming constantly over cracked tubes.


Well, you tried to be politically correct, :lol: But I agree with you.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:35 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:41 am
Posts: 156
Location: Upstate New York
I used to use Green Dot to shoot Skeet in the 20ga. I had one 20ga Rem. 870 with choke tubes that I gave to my oldest Granddaughter. All my shotguns have solid choke barrels as I don't care for Choke tubed guns. My favorite powder for the 20ga for years both with 7/8oz and 1oz is Herco. I love Green Dot in my 12ga guns.

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 Post subject: Re: 20ga Red dot
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:10 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:04 pm
Posts: 775
Location: Eastern Ohio
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
Back when people used actual 20-gauge shotguns, not tissue-paper-thin tubes shoved inside 12-gauge shotguns.

The "old" red dot, green dot, or 700X loads won't do the tiniest bit of harm to actual real 20-gauge shotguns.

But, since the people who use tubes can't manage to "go low", the old load data has to be, er,, ummm, "revised downward" (being nice) to try to stop the Tube Crowd from screaming constantly over cracked tubes.


+ 1 Used red dot for years in dedicated 20 gauge guns. No problem



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