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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:33 pm 
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ETN wrote:
I am a " newbee " regards shotshell reloading and am looking for information how to SAFELY convert 20 gauge 7/8 oz shot load date to load 1/2 oz, 5/8 oz and 3/4 oz shot and/or slug loads for a 20 gauge Mossberg SA20.

I have the Lyman 5th Edition, BPI's Advantages Manual in addition to other load data info, with ONLY BPI providing data but for THEIR stocked Euro hulls -

I have Rem Prem STS hulls mostly with WIN 209, CCI 209 and CCI 209M primers.

There has to be " SOME FORMULA / CONVERSION TABLE " to be able to reduce the powder charge in relation to the shot / slug charge to accomplish producing a safe reduced recoil load.

I have commercial made slugs by Remington ( Slugger ) which have 1/2 oz and 5/8 oz slugs,
Also Winchester has the Super X 3/4 oz slug @ 1600 FPS

Therefore, it is obviously DOABLE !

Clue me in as to WHERE and/or HOW I can access the necessary info to emulate what the Big Boys are doing !

Thanks in advance, Ed
Ed: you jumping the shark here by not only going from 12/16 ga to 20 ga., but from shot to slugs. I suggest you start a new thread with your questions. And doesn't Lyman's 5th have slug data? And maybe BPI.



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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:06 am 
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ETN,

Slug data is different from shot data, which is different than buckshot data, which is different from .........

There are no conversion charts. You either have data for a particular load or you don't.

Also what the factories do, isn't always what you can do as a reloader. Not all components are available to the reloader. Many wads, slugs, primers and powders are only available to the OEM's.

With shotshells you have to do your homework first, which means finding reloading data first, then you can buy the components. DO NOT BUY first components and then look for data.

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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:16 am 
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ETN,

There is another way to tackle this. There are at least 2 entities that will test loads that you develop. $5.00 a shot usually a minimum of 5 shots to get a reasonable test.

The one fly in the ointment is you have to have a good idea on what components you need and how much and what kind of primer/powder combination will work to produce a good, safe load. If not you can spend a lot of ching going back and forth until you hit on the combination that works.

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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:12 pm 
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ETN wrote:
oneounceload wrote:
From 7/8 to 3/4 drop less shot in the proper 3/4oz wad; works great


Could you possibly expound on that ?

I assumed that my QUESTION was EXPLICIT -

Whereas your REPLY is VAGUE

Take any 7/8 OZ recipe, replace the wad with a 3/4 oz wad and drop 3/4 oz of shot in it and you are good to go.
If you are using a WWAAHS-20 hull, you really can use your 7/8 oz wad with 3/4 oz of shot.
How much more explicit would you like to have?

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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:02 pm 
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ETN wrote:
oneounceload wrote:
From 7/8 to 3/4 drop less shot in the proper 3/4oz wad; works great


Could you possibly expound on that ?

I assumed that my QUESTION was EXPLICIT -

Whereas your REPLY is VAGUE


Read this. https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 3&t=421067


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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:44 pm 
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DooFighter wrote:
ETN wrote:
oneounceload wrote:
From 7/8 to 3/4 drop less shot in the proper 3/4oz wad; works great


Could you possibly expound on that ?

I assumed that my QUESTION was EXPLICIT -

Whereas your REPLY is VAGUE


Read this. https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 3&t=421067


Thank You - I read that entire post prior to posing my question on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:53 pm 
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Curly N wrote:
ETN wrote:
oneounceload wrote:
From 7/8 to 3/4 drop less shot in the proper 3/4oz wad; works great


Could you possibly expound on that ?

I assumed that my QUESTION was EXPLICIT -

Whereas your REPLY is VAGUE

Take any 7/8 OZ recipe, replace the wad with a 3/4 oz wad and drop 3/4 oz of shot in it and you are good to go.
If you are using a WWAAHS-20 hull, you really can use your 7/8 oz wad with 3/4 oz of shot.
How much more explicit would you like to have?


Reading between the lines of what you and " oneounceload " are saying is that I can reduce the shot quantity while maintaining the other criteria of the recipe as long as I maintain the correct stack build up to ensure a proper crimp.

WHAT EFFECT would a lead charge reduction have on the generated pressure ?

I suppose that this reduction would increase the velocity as there is less being pushed out the barrel ?


THOSE were the biggest 2 questions I was hoping to find out as ALL the info that I have read on this subject makes NO mention of anything remotely close to what answers I am looking for.

Ed


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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:57 pm 
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What exactly are so concerned about? By dropping less shot with the same components will give you higher velocity but less recoil.

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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:10 pm 
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oneounceload wrote:
What exactly are so concerned about? By dropping less shot with the same components will give you higher velocity but less recoil.


THANK YOU - THAT is THE answer that I was looking for ! {hs#

With THAT in mind - I could - IF so inclined - even go down to a 1/2 oz. load ?

Ed


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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:17 pm 
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ETN wrote:
Curly N wrote:
Take any 7/8 OZ recipe, replace the wad with a 3/4 oz wad and drop 3/4 oz of shot in it and you are good to go.
If you are using a WWAAHS-20 hull, you really can use your 7/8 oz wad with 3/4 oz of shot.
How much more explicit would you like to have?


Reading between the lines of what you and " oneounceload " are saying is that I can reduce the shot quantity while maintaining the other criteria of the recipe as long as I maintain the correct stack build up to ensure a proper crimp.

WHAT EFFECT would a lead charge reduction have on the generated pressure ?

With a lesser amount of shot, The chamber pressure would go down if all other factors including depth of crimp remained the same. I know this because I paid for testing with this exact scenario.

I suppose that this reduction would increase the velocity as there is less being pushed out the barrel ?


The Pressure goes down and the velocity goes up in the conditions as stated.

THOSE were the biggest 2 questions I was hoping to find out as ALL the info that I have read on this subject makes NO mention of anything remotely close to what answers I am looking for.

Ed


Please see the answers in color. to each of your questions. It is easier to get the answers to the questions if you just ask the question you actually want answered rather than ask a generic vague question which will frequently give you an equally vague answer.
The members here in the reloading section try to be as specific as the question asked.
Why write several paragraphs when we are unsure as to what is actually wanted.

If you want to go to a 1/2 oz loading you will be far ahead to shoot a 410 because there are too many hoops to leap through to drop payload that percentage.

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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:23 pm 
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Curly N -

Thank You for the information, and I apologize if my original question was NOT asked properly as I am new to this aspect of reloading which is entirely different from metallic cartridge reloading.

Ed

P.S. Remington sells a 1/2 oz Rifled Slug with an 1800 FPS velocity ( SPHV20RS ) which has the trajectory comparable to a handgun or rifle bullet - an initial rise - level out - and then a fall - Which according their packaging states their trajectory to be :

@ Muzzle -1.5 " / @ 50 yds - 0" / @ 100 yds - -3.6 "

So under certain circumstances the 1/2 oz load just might be doable !


Last edited by ETN on Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:50 pm 
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Yes it is - in metallic you can mix and match components whereas in shotshell that is not the case.

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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:01 pm 
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oneounceload wrote:
Yes it is - in metallic you can mix and match components whereas in shotshell that is not the case.


IF what you state is the case -

WHY and HOW are NEW " recipes " being developed -

Obviously, someone has to ' step up to the plate ' and experiment with other formulas than what are the ' accepted / tried and true ' formulas !

Matter of fact - there is a blog on this very forum which is solely dedicated to that -

People who are willing to ' go where no man has gone before ' to steal a phrase -

If NOT for ' experimenting ' mankind would still be living in the Stone Age or worse !

And MAN arrived at the STONE AGE through Trial and Error !


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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:18 pm 
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oneounceload wrote:
Yes it is - in metallic you can mix and match components whereas in shotshell that is not the case.


Please correct me where I am wrong -

Did we OR did we not - just mix and match components when we modified the 7/8 oz shot load to change it to 3/4 oz ?

I am REALLY curious to HEAR the RESPONSE to THAT !


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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:21 pm 
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ETN wrote:
oneounceload wrote:
Yes it is - in metallic you can mix and match components whereas in shotshell that is not the case.


IF what you state is the case -

WHY and HOW are NEW " recipes " being developed -

Obviously, someone has to ' step up to the plate ' and experiment with other formulas than what are the ' accepted / tried and true ' formulas !

Matter of fact - there is a blog on this very forum which is solely dedicated to that -

People who are willing to ' go where no man has gone before ' to steal a phrase -

If NOT for ' experimenting ' mankind would still be living in the Stone Age or worse !

And MAN arrived at the STONE AGE through Trial and Error !


People that have an idea that they want to try make a batch of shells and send them off to be tested by a Ballistician that has the proper equipment.
Did you come here for answers, or are you trying to start an argument? Your previous posts look like the latter.
If that is the case, you don't have much of a future here. I do not tolerate folks that simply are here to raise a ruckus and stir the crap and run.
So step back and think carefully about what you want and what you are going to do.

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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:23 pm 
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ETN wrote:
oneounceload wrote:
Yes it is - in metallic you can mix and match components whereas in shotshell that is not the case.


Please correct me where I am wrong -

Did we OR did we not - just mix and match components when we modified the 7/8 oz shot load to change it to 3/4 oz ?

I am REALLY curious to HEAR the RESPONSE to THAT !

I furnished information to you that I paid to get tested, not a mix and match.
Read my previous post that I just posted before this.

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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:28 pm 
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ETN wrote:
oneounceload wrote:
Yes it is - in metallic you can mix and match components whereas in shotshell that is not the case.


Please correct me where I am wrong -

Did we OR did we not - just mix and match components when we modified the 7/8 oz shot load to change it to 3/4 oz ?

I am REALLY curious to HEAR the RESPONSE to THAT !


I did not say to mix or match, you use the same components- you varied the weight of the payload by .125oz.

You are WAY overthinking this, perhaps shotshell reloading is not for you. You have been given excellent data and advice by several folks, including Curly - take his word and run with it or just run away from all of it.

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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:40 pm 
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oneounceload,

I think the answer to ETN's post are perfectly addressed in your signature line.

Quote:
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin

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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:41 pm 
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I am NOT here to " cause a rukus " there are discrepancies which I am seeking logical answers to.

Obviously, the questions that seek answers to are ' ruffling feathers ' for reasons which, honestly, are unknown to me .

On one hand it is permissible to alter published load data while on the other hand it is taboo.

I am located on the West Coast, not that it matters, but I would more greatly appreciate any information that you could provide so that I might be able to contact a proximate ballistics lab so that I might ascertain the information that I am looking for.

The BIGGEST concern upon reading ALL of the books and posted info regards shotshell loading is PRESSURE and to NOT EXCEED 12K PSI -

I respect that - however, a chronograph does NOT afford one THAT information - ONLY VELOCITY.

I have NO QUALMS about PAYING for ANYTHING - that should be obvious as to what I purchased to get where I am.

Thank you for your time !


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 Post subject: Re: 3/4 oz. loads
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:56 pm 
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ETN,

ALL published shotshell loads, by responsible sources, are tested for pressure and velocity according to SAAMI – Z299.2 – Shotshell – 2015 (R2019) Standards.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ... -04-23.pdf

There is no guessing or swapping of components. Load per the data, the loads are safe. Change components and you are on your own.



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