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 Post subject: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 490
Square loads seem reasonable with the proper shot size for clay targets but are there
choke constrictions that perform better , as in a Gaussian pattern , which allows one
to shoot a more open constriction over a tighter one ?
What's your experience ?




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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:15 pm 
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Location: Annapolis, MD
WTF are you talking about? Square loads? Mine are all cylindrical. This is a reloading forum. Gaussian *tuff does not enter into it. Neither do chokes.

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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:21 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Toledo Ohio
Nebs wrote:
WTF are you talking about? Square loads? Mine are all cylindrical. This is a reloading forum. Gaussian *tuff does not enter into it. Neither do chokes.

You should google square load before you go on attack....


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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm
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Location: Central CT
Ravenanme,

Square loads are a wet dream, they offer nothing different than any other load.

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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:07 pm 
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Location: Rochester, NY
Square loads don't exist outside of 12ga unless you load VERY light for gauge.

A square load in 12ga would be around 1oz.

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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 490
dogchaser37 wrote:
Ravenanme,

Square loads are a wet dream, they offer nothing different than any other load.


After reading a article by the Technoid I was kinda thinking the same thing but seeing
how Nebs replied I think the technoid might be on to something , sarcastically too ?
I'm also into (1) ounce loads inside of 40 yds but as the distance increases I prefer
pattern density !


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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:58 pm 
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TWISTER7795 wrote:
Nebs wrote:
WTF are you talking about? Square loads? Mine are all cylindrical. This is a reloading forum. Gaussian *tuff does not enter into it. Neither do chokes.

You should google square load before you go on attack....
OK, I googled it. My conclusion: It's all a bunch of BS with no scientific basis. And what's it got to do with reloading?

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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am
Posts: 3559
Location: UK, England, Britain
square loads were ok if using blackpowder. but times change, nitro arrived.
nitro runs "very" different to BP.


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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:36 am 
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Wow Nebs, somebody pee in your Cheerios?

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Ravenanme,

This is something I am 100% sure of.....putting recoil issues aside and assuming you are using a solid load with appropriate sized quality shot......there is no load, square or otherwise, that is going to break any more targets than another. Breaking targets is up to the shooter.

The folks that say some load made a difference, are only fooling themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:14 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 10802
Location: Phoenixville PA
A "square load" was a black powder load for a muzzleloading shotgun where the powder volume, wad thickness, and amount of shot loaded were equal in height to the diameter of the bore. Since then, no true "square loads" have REALLY been available, but many folks use the term "square load" without really understanding the origin of the term.

(And yes, I did use muzzleloading shotguns on occasion, and they worked well, but I noticed NO real improvement to patterns whether I used square loads or other reasonable loads.)

So what do you propose as a "square load"? The shot height equal to the bore diameter? Or the shot height equal to the wad diameter? What about wad height and powder height? ...ad nauseum.

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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:46 am 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 215
Keep digging. A smokeless "square load" is the shot height in the shell is same as bore diameter of barrel. This is DIFFERENT from a black powder "square load," where volume of shot and volume of black powder were matched up.

General idea in the smokeless designation is that the shot cloud (string) will be shorter, and you are wasting shot and creating more recoil when you exceed a square load. 1 1/16 ounce shot in a 12 gauge is "square," for example. We really are generally shooting square loads any more in skeet and SC, perhaps not yet in Trap. Sometimes quite a bit more shot than square.

But I too see no "physics/magic" in being exactly square.

Good luck, garrisonjoe


Last edited by garrisonjoe on Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:18 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:58 pm
Posts: 1376
Location: Oklahoma
This may not be an exact "square load" to "heavy load" comparison, but it's about as close as I can get. So, let’s see what the pattern board can tell us about these two loads and their performance.

Patterning results from a 12-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

12 GA 2 3/4" WINCHESTER AA XTRA-LITE TARGET LOAD
1 oz #7 1/2 lead (344 pellets) @ 1180 fps
30 YARDS
CYL / pattern 194 (56%)
SK / pattern 248 (72%)
IC / pattern 288 (84%)

40 YARDS
LM / pattern 260 (76%)
M / pattern 272 (79%)
IM / pattern 255 (74%)
LF / pattern 271 (79%)
F / pattern 275 (80%)

50 YARDS
F / pattern 183 (53%)

12 GA 2 3/4" WINCHESTER AA HEAVY TARGET LOAD
1 1/8 oz #7 1/2 lead (377 pellets) @ 1200 fps
30 YARDS
CYL / pattern 202 (54%)
SK / pattern 253 (67%)
IC / pattern 324 (86%)

40 YARDS
LM / pattern 264 (70%)
M / pattern 285 (76%)
IM / pattern 288 (76%)
LF / pattern 289 (77%)
F / pattern 299 (79%)

50 YARDS
F / pattern 219 (58%)

As you can see, the 1 1/8-ounce load always put more pellets in the pattern than the 1-ounce load. And, the 1-ounce load usually, but not always, registered higher pattern percentages than the 1 1/8-ounce load. Of course, percentages don't kill birds or break targets... pellets do!

Is one more “effective” than the other? You can be the judge of that!

Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:31 pm
Posts: 2385
Ravenanme wrote:
After reading a article by the Technoid ...


How about a link to the article

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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 21981
MY understanding was that both the 28 and 16 gauge normal loadings were considered square loads, but I do not agree. personally, I find a 3/4oz in a 12 to be closer to the definition of height equal to diameter

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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 4676
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
I haven't read extensively on the subject but have done some. This is only my impression but it seems to me that the "square load" theory was developed in the black powder era as sort of a "rule of thumb" guide for finding the most efficient load for your smoke pole. I see it as sort of a "point of diminishing returns" where the disruptive forces in a shotgun load started to overtake the benefits of loading more shot. We still have a point, or more accurately, points of diminishing returns but the numbers have changed & have become more complicated. We have shot protectors, buffer & hard shot to combat shot deformation. We have sophisticated powders that let us load heavier shot charges, among other things. However, we still have limits we have to stay within. The old "square load" is no longer the standard but the concept is still valid. Also, Mr. Dogchaser has it right. Nothing works if you miss the target!


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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:40 pm 
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Location: Louisiana
I think plastic wad cups and hard shot made square loads unnecessary for good patterns. Hard shot stacked high in a modern, cushioned plastic wad largely obviates the old need for square loads to minimize setback and contact with the bore of soft shot over fiber wads.


Last edited by lossking on Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:05 pm 
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Load them up as square as you want. If you believe it might help it might help. Maybe use a lot of slow burning powder to lower the recoil too. I am shooting 1 oz loads at under 1200 because I think the reduced recoil might help. I guess they are "square" also.

But if I have to shoot 1 legal shell to break 1 target for a strong reason I am going with the 1 1/8 loading. I think more shot helps more than being square.


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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:11 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Soldotna, Alaska
Piss poor shooting results in misses no matter what type of load you use.


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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:21 pm 
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True, but dense, even patterns will result in fewer misses than thin, splotchy ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Loading a square load ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 4676
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
True, but there are still limits. I remember reading Don Zutz describing how that extra 1/8 oz. of shot in the 1 1/8 oz. load really sweetened up patterns. Then in a different discussion about balanced loads, he talked about finding a 10 ga., 3.5" shell that was loaded with 2 oz. of #8 shot, in a goose pit. The 1 1/8 oz. 12 ga. load has been a 12 ga., low brass standard as long as I can remember and for good reason. Two ounces of #8's is somewhere out in the twilight zone, especially for a goose load. I like the concept of a balanced load. Then there is the thing about long shot columns tending to produce long shot strings, but that is another topic.




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