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 Post subject: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:34 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:20 pm
Posts: 174
I have been shooting firearms for a long time, mostly pistols, more recently also shotguns. It didn't take long when I first started out to learn the standard wisdom that smart reloaders only reload for themselves and family and smart shooters only shoot commercial factory ammo or what they have personally reloaded. Of course it makes sense.

BUT, I was just wondering whether it could be sensible to pay a reputable and respected reloader, preferably local, to avoid shipping costs, to produce my favorite clay target load recipe for a price that would be fair for both of us. Perhaps a guy just likes to reload, has a lot of free time and could recoup some of his own shooting expenses by selling ammo. That sort of thing is just one example.

I shoot middle of the road ammo, not AAs and such like that. Costs have been rising. Shipping costs have gone through the roof except at a few places like Cabela's. And in the price range I am interested in, the very standard recipe of 1 oz, 1180 fps is not always available. Or to put it another way the best price is often on something else that I enjoy shooting less. Of course I could always get the ammo I want somewhere, but at what cost?

So is there any justification for shooting ammo hand-reloaded by a highly experienced, highly regarded amateur? Could a price that gives the reloader a little profit still be competitive with discounted popular factory ammo like Gun Clubs, Super Targets, etc? I am not looking for bargain basement prices, just something competitive with popular ammo on a good sale at Gander, Academy, etc. My main goal is to have a reliable source of exactly the same ammo recipe day after day without having to search Ammoseek every few weeks and sometimes paying a stupid price when nothing is on sale. I wouldn't even mind saving my hulls and trading them in for reloaded ammo.

OR IS IT JUST, AS I SUSPECT, A REALLY BAD IDEA? Please understand I am just kicking around an idea and value your input.

Regarding reloading myself, I am just not up to it. I have been selling off a lot of my hobby gear and trimming down "junk" at the house. No more photographic printing, no more building bicycle wheels, and so on. I certainly don't want to get in involved in that kind of thing all over again.



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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:39 am 
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Location: Afton, VA
No problem as long as he has his federal ammunition manufacturer's license, local and state tax and business licenses, and the liability insurance.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:51 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 3817
Location: Western Tampa, FL
This is not the response you will probably get from others but here goes anyway. As has been said, to be done legally he would have to have all the appropriate licenses, insurance, etc. Doubtful that anyone would be willing to do that.

In addition, finding the right person to trust to always do everything properly in their loading procedure, is the main obstacle. I actually have such a friend who is meticulous to a fault in his loading techniques, and I have shot some of his reloads without concern. However, he is the only one that I can say that about.

I on the other hand have loaded countless boxes of 20 gauge and 28 gauge for a close friend. It is just a difficult thing to find someone like that regardless of their "reputation".

Again there is also the legal issue of doing it without proper licensing if it became public knowledge.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:59 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am
Posts: 3589
Location: UK, England, Britain
not to mention trust.

i worked for an outfit. the newest management was to strip and strip all service so that it doesnt actually work. "we will sort out your project.. etc..."
They cut down everything. supplies, components, and eventually actually bothering to do the work. just either screw it up so nothing spent and charge the customers for 3-4x repeat runs.

unless your guy is good, dont touch it with a barge pole.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:03 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:20 pm
Posts: 174
Sure, I didn't think about the legalities. Good answers. Thanks.

What I need is a son (or daughter) who reloads. Not gonna happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:27 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 3817
Location: Western Tampa, FL
OP: check for PM sent.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:19 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:58 pm
Posts: 3502
Location: Sag Harbor, New York
I started out in 1970 with a Federal Manufacturing License and opened Mount Ivy Reloading Company. I supplied reloads to the local range in 9mm Target, .45 SWC and .38 WC loaded on semi-automatic equipment. Had a deal with the local police departments, supplied them S&W .38 Special factory ammo (that is a whole other story) at cost less the excise tax and got their once fired brass in return. Then started doing custom load work up for some of my customers (got my FFL first when the ATF sent me the wrong initial license and told me to keep it and re-apply for the manufacturing license) that I had sold rifles too. All my boxes were labeled with a release and all my direct customers signed a release / hold harmless. My attorney told me I was stupid to be in that business without a huge amount of Liability insurance and that my releases would never hold up in court. Finally realized I could make a much selling a gun or two as I did taking the risk of reloading.

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:32 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:20 pm
Posts: 174
Thanks guys for all the responses. I think I have what I needed to know. Back to Academy and Cabela’s for me.

I’m going to exit this thread now that I have the answer to my question . Feel free to continue on with it if you like.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:21 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am
Posts: 3589
Location: UK, England, Britain
Ive reloaded for someone else once.
Never again.

Those shells were tested and safe. Then passed on to others.
Never again


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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:22 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:21 pm
Posts: 21
moishepipick wrote:
Thanks guys for all the responses. I think I have what I needed to know. Back to Academy and Cabela’s for me.

I’m going to exit this thread now that I have the answer to my question . Feel free to continue on with it if you like.



I would never trust anyone not to go after me in court if a load went bad and hurt them.


But I do tell people I know buy the components and come over and pull the handle. I love to teach my favorite hobby, especially in rifle and handgun.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:37 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:11 am
Posts: 877
I do not shoot other people's reloads.
I don't reload for anyone else.
No complaints and no lawsuits from the one guy shooting my reloads.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:40 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:59 pm
Posts: 40
Calculate out just the material cost. Even using favorable group buys this may be underwhelming. Not much left for the supplier's time, profit, and capital charge.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:19 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6182
Location: Mascoutah IL
It's very unlikely you would find someone to dedicate their time to reload and sell you ammunition at a cost competitive to budget factory ammo.

Spending an hour to save $10 for a case of ammo I'm shooting may be a relaxing hobby. Spending an hour to make $10 for ammo that you will shoot is more like working for less than minimum wage.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:08 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Posts: 1840
Location: Eastern Oregon
moishapipick,
Just came back from town. New Federal 1oz 4pack for $20.25, 1 1/8oz same price. loading with new shot and a used hull about the same price.... no profit. If the objective is to save a bit of money then shop for equipment to do your own loading. Over time you save a bit and perhaps add a bit of enjoyment to your shooting.... Larry


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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:10 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 22
Waaaaay back before promo ammo and buying ammo on-line was available, I shot at a small privately owned club where the owner sold his reloads.

I knew another shooter that sold reloads. He was semi-retired from "his business". He didn't worry about liability.

At best, that ammo was promo quality.


Last edited by J.Fred_Muggs on Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:32 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 1916
I pay a guy to reload rifle and handgun ammunition for me. I have several calibers but don’t shoot any one a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:32 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6182
Location: Mascoutah IL
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:

At best, that ammo was promo quality.


At best, nearly all shotshell reloads are promo quality. I realize many wish to convince themselves otherwise.

I think the biggest difference between "premium" and promo shells is price and paying more does not break more targets.

If you wish to continue charging high prices in the face of budget priced competition you need to fabricate meaningless marketing phrases like "loaded with best-in-class primers and powder", "loaded with proven, hard shot for tighter, hard-hitting patterns", or "specially designed AA wad helps reduce felt recoil and improves pattern performance".


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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:57 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:04 pm
Posts: 2313
I have not estimated my reloading costs for a while but I would not be surprised its over $4/ box. I have bought many a flat of Gun Clubs from Gander Outdoors for $5/ box shipped with no tax, however I have not seen a deal like that since last year.
I bought lead a few days ago for $42.60 tax included. At that price the lead alone costs $3/box for 1 1/8 loads.
I reload for several reasons but saving money is not one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:13 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:20 pm
Posts: 174
wrfish wrote:
I have not estimated my reloading costs for a while but I would not be surprised its over $4/ box. I have bought many a flat of Gun Clubs from Gander Outdoors for $5/ box shipped with no tax, however I have not seen a deal like that since last year.
I bought lead a few days ago for $42.60 tax included. At that price the lead alone costs $3/box for 1 1/8 loads.
I reload for several reasons but saving money is not one of them.

Yeah, me too regarding the Gun Clubs. The disappearance of those deals is partly what prompted this thread. But I hear ya about buying reloads. Not much savings to show for the risks.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom reloaded ammo as a revenue producing hobby
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:28 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 8837
Location: Rochester, NY
Not only is there "not much savings", there is ZERO savings.

Picking the cheapest options for components from CAC (Nobelsport Primers, Promo Powder, Claybuster WT12 wad, Spartan shot) and having to buy the hulls in which to put the components (figured on 2c/ea for once fired Gun Clubs), I come up with $4.58/box for what is the same or lower quality than Gun Clubs or Top Guns. You may be able to get those prices a tiny bit lower if you buy by the pallet load, but I doubt there's a whole bunch to be saved.

Add Pittman Robertson and you're at $5.10 COST, plus 06 FFL cost, machinery, and insurance. Even if you got a substantial break on components by dropping $50-100k at a time, by the time you factor in the other costs there is no chance you'll be able to sell them for less than factory shells.



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http://www.sminglershotgunsports.webs.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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