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 Post subject: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:36 am 
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Location: S E Kansas
I have a bunch of 28ga HS hulls, but I have been told that there are differences in some of them, any true to that, and how do I tell if there is a difference ?



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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:53 am 
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retired2006 wrote:
I have a bunch of 28ga HS hulls, but I have been told that there are differences in some of them, any true to that, and how do I tell if there is a difference ?


The original 28 gauge HS hulls were shorter than ones manufactured today, but the shorter hulls have been discontinued so long ago that it should be rare that you encounter one. I load around 8,000 28 gauge per year and have not encountered one of the short wads for many years.


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:13 am 
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This is what I confused about: From Billy D's website:

28 Ga WIN AA HS 1X Hulls - IN STOCK
Click to enlarge
Each bag contains 250 hulls. These are a mix of hulls with the line under the AA and no line under the AA.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:49 am 
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When Winchester transitioned from short hulls to long, they began putting underlines under the "AA" logo. Sadly, this is NOT a totally accurate way to tell which length you have, as there are examples of shorties with underlines and long ones without. But what the sales guy is trying to tell you is: each lot has hulls of mixed lengths.


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:26 pm 
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Regardless of what you may be told. Short WWAAHS -28 hulls are not rare. The early ones that were marked with "40 Years" above the AA, are the only ones that you can sort by the markings. You will find short, long and in-between on any of the WWAAHS-28 hulls without that marking. I know this because I gauge every WWAAHS-28 hull that I collect. My sort point is 2 5/8, anything over that, I call a long.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:31 pm 
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Curly N wrote:
I know this because I gauge every WWAAHS-28 hull that I collect. My sort point is 2 5/8, anything over that, I call a long.


I know a lot of people who load many 28 gauge AAHS and none of them take the time to measure their hulls. There is no benefit to spending the time doing this.


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:50 pm 
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Short hulls were a problem to get a good crimp with universal powder, AAHS wads and a full 7/8 oz. load. They are somewhat better with 20/28 powder and claybuster wads. I think I've finally managed to retire the darn things.

I used to just stand a few dozen at a time up on a table and pick out the shorties. They are about 3/32" short IIRC. To my eye they are a slightly different color as well, more of a dull flat red rather than a brighter glossier red.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:54 pm 
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Hi,

There is a benefit if you worry about your crimps being right. I have run into one box of short AAHS hulls. My crimps where absolute garbage. And I'm pretty tolerant of my crimps - does it hold the shot in? - being my biggest concern.

I disposed of those hulls. And apparently all the rest are the longer hulls.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:51 pm 
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I do not believe the line/no line under the AA on the HS hull has any significance for the 28 ga. In the 12 ga., it demarked the change from the 2nd gen 12 ga. to the 3rd gen (1st gen had a box around the AA).

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:10 pm 
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DEG wrote:
Curly N wrote:
I know this because I gauge every WWAAHS-28 hull that I collect. My sort point is 2 5/8, anything over that, I call a long.


I know a lot of people who load many 28 gauge AAHS and none of them take the time to measure their hulls. There is no benefit to spending the time doing this.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it might be.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:25 pm 
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I sorted all of mine and threw the short ones in the trash. Good riddance

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
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Location: Central NH
Since I've just dipped my toes into the 28 gauge world, I figured I'd post up.
Image[/url]
These shells were loaded on a PW 375C, and are destined for Precision Reloading for testing.

Four look perfect, and two are funky.

All the shells came from two boxes from the same order, although I didn't check lot numbers.

Is this a shell length issue?


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:17 pm 
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No. Thats something else.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:22 pm 
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Looks like your pre-crimper did not pick up the old fold lines.

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:51 pm 
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OK...

It's brand new tooling, so I'm pretty sure it isn't dirty. Maybe some dry graphite will slick up the pre-crimp die.


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:26 pm 
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painter* wrote:
OK...

It's brand new tooling, so I'm pretty sure it isn't dirty. Maybe some dry graphite will slick up the pre-crimp die.

It is not the inside of the die but the fact that it didn't rotate to pick up the folds.
Many 28's do not have distinct remaining creases for the die to pick up.
Also, hull length can vary within lot numbers and boxes

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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:33 pm 
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I bought once-fired HS hulls from Billy D, a mix of shorties and longs. The shorties, using Unique and CB wads were a mess on crimps, many not closing completely. For awhile I had a tape in front of my machine to measure them, tossed out the shorties.


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:38 pm 
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Curly N wrote:
painter* wrote:
OK...

It's brand new tooling, so I'm pretty sure it isn't dirty. Maybe some dry graphite will slick up the pre-crimp die.

It is not the inside of the die but the fact that it didn't rotate to pick up the folds.
Many 28's do not have distinct remaining creases for the die to pick up.
Also, hull length can vary within lot numbers and boxes

I understand that it's not the inside, but the rotation of the pre-crimp die to pick up whatever fold lines are present. I figured I'd try some dry graphite on the shaft of the die so perhaps it would spin more freely.

Coincidentally, my 12 gauge PW 800+ will dog ear the occasional hull,as well. They never come out of it once it happens.

I cull them out as I shoot them.


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 Post subject: Re: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:12 pm 
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painter* wrote:
Curly N wrote:
painter* wrote:
OK...

It's brand new tooling, so I'm pretty sure it isn't dirty. Maybe some dry graphite will slick up the pre-crimp die.

It is not the inside of the die but the fact that it didn't rotate to pick up the folds.
Many 28's do not have distinct remaining creases for the die to pick up.
Also, hull length can vary within lot numbers and boxes

I understand that it's not the inside, but the rotation of the pre-crimp die to pick up whatever fold lines are present. I figured I'd try some dry graphite on the shaft of the die so perhaps it would spin more freely.

Coincidentally, my 12 gauge PW 800+ will dog ear the occasional hull,as well. They never come out of it once it happens.

I cull them out as I shoot them.

Silicone spray might work better and cleaner.

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 Post subject: Difference in AA HS 28ga hulls ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:52 pm 
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Those crimps are my main beef with the HS hull. The crimps are ugly but they don’t seem to cause any problems. I call those on the right “inverted folds”. The HS hull will last a number of reloads. Eventually they crack open down the side. I’ve even had it happen after one reload. By comparison the HS is made of tougher plastic than the old compression formed (CF) hull and will give more reloads. But, the CF hull takes the prize for beautiful crimps, and I’ve never had a CF hull split open down the side. I have a large supply of CF hulls, so that’s what I load. Aside from the variation in length, the HS hull reloads quite well, several times: more than the CF hull. However, the CF hull is my favorite to reload even through you get fewer reloads before they’re spent out. If you can lay your hands on some CF hulls, you might just like them better than the HS hull.



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