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 Post subject: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shooting.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:22 pm
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MEC 9000H .410

A few of us shoot S Clays with Browning 725s and I offered a box of AA reloads to someone shooting a CG. Some of the shells would not fully seat, or after firing a rod would be needed to extract the hull.
3 Brownings and a CZ had no issues with my reloads. So I’m thinking the Guerini is made to very tight tolerances.
Not having issues myself, I’m hesitant to do any adjustments or experimenting but would like feedback on the topic.
H




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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:31 pm 
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HenryPeter wrote:
MEC 9000H .410

A few of us shoot S Clays with Browning 725s and I offered a box of AA reloads to someone shooting a CG. Some of the shells would not fully seat, or after firing a rod would be needed to extract the hull.
3 Brownings and a CZ had no issues with my reloads. So I’m thinking the Guerini is made to very tight tolerances.
Not having issues myself, I’m hesitant to do any adjustments or experimenting but would like feedback on the topic.
H

First, the terms fit and tolerance are not interchangeable. What you are talking about is the fit of the shell in the chamber. That may or may not have anything to do with CG's manufacturing tolerances.
I would not change anything on your loader set up, unless you want to be able to supply shells to all your shooting partners. Your shells fit your guns and that is all that I would worry about.


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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:59 am 
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Vette Jockey2 wrote:
I would not change anything on your loader set up, unless you want to be able to supply shells to all your shooting partners. Your shells fit your guns and that is all that I would worry about.
I agree 100%. Tell the CG owner he'll have to find another ammunition source for his shooting enjoyment. :D

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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:56 pm 
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Wow, tough bastards, I shall follow your advices into ‘reloader hell’ where our primers always flip inverted.
But....
Knowing that CG owners would never reload or admit to it, I’m curious about the gunsmithing (?) science of it all. I checked and do not see how my collet on station one can be squeeze any closer together.
Would a hand operated resizer be the answer?

H


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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:15 pm 
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I have an old Winchester Model 42 with a tight chamber. If the hull wont go through my MEC Go-No Go gauge then it won’t chamber in the 42.

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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:41 pm 
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1. The CG likely has tighter chambers than the other guns that you’ve used your reloads in.
2. Since the owner of the CG has shot the gun before, factory ammunition must work fine. If factory ammo works, there is nothing wrong with the gun. Factory ammunition isn’t magical, the brass is just smaller in diameter than what is currently coming off your loader.
3. Your Mec 9000 can absolutely resize shells that will work perfectly in the CG. In fact, the collet resizer used by Mec loaders does, IMO, the best job of any resizer available to reloaders.

Take a look at the owner’s manual for the 9000. You want to turn that nut on the collet counterclockwise to resize to a smaller diameter. Measure your hulls before and after resizing. According to Mec, you want this diameter to be between .472” and .476”. SAAMI specifications list minimum shell diameter as .468”, while minimum chamber dimensions are .478 (for the 2-1/2” chamber).

You probably want something close to .472” if you want your ammo to fit in other guns.

Additionally, if the shell lifter sits higher than necessary in the collet, the collet will not size all the way down to the rim of the brass. This may or may not cause an issue with some guns/chambers. You can usually visually see how low on the brass the collet actually sizes. If necessary, raise the lifter a hair. Be careful, though, because if the lifter sits too high, your loader will not be happy!


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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:11 am 
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tmmiller57 wrote:
According to Mec, you want this diameter to be between .472” and .476”. SAAMI specifications list minimum shell diameter as .468”, while minimum chamber dimensions are .478 (for the 2-1/2” chamber).



Thats because MEC likes selling collets. The more you stress the collet fingers resizing to a smaller dimension then YOU need for YOUR chamber the sooner that collet will wear out.

tmmiller57 wrote:
Additionally, if the shell lifter sits higher than necessary in the collet, the collet will not size all the way down to the rim of the brass.


IMHO this statement is going to confuse a whole bunch of people, leading them to think that lifter height has something to do with resizing. The lifter has 2 positions,down far enough and up high enough.
The lifter fork has to go down far enough so the "E" clip on its rod faces off on the top of the base. That is the only "down" adjustment for the lifter. If the "E" clip does not touch the base you mushroom the hull brass. When the "E" clip faces off correctly, the head on the lifter bottoms out inside the collet, the hull rim lines up with the groove in the collet and all is good. The lifter can not drop down any more then that.
The fork has to come "up" high enough so the hull can exit station 1 smoothly without catching/tripping on the collet fingers. But not too high so you can't get a hull between it and the shell carrier plate in station 1.


Steve

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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:22 pm
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Just to be clear...I ain’t messin with my machine. Things are perfect FOR ME. I guess I found out that there are variations between gun brands.
I told the owner of the CG not to mix his hulls with his brothers 725. They share a 9000G MEC. Then his hulls are ‘sized’ to his gun and should remain so and load fine. I guess.
I thought there might be some great revelation.
All is good, thanks.
H


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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:54 pm 
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Question for Steve, Yes, the travel of the rod is governed by the e clips..... but isn't the position of the fork on that rod adjustable either up or down? Larry


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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:19 pm 
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If you reload ammo, it should fit any gun. I highly doubt that a CG (or any well made modern shotgun)would have chambers tighter than maximum cartridge size.

I would bet that something on your reloader is not adjusted properly. Probably the collet or the final two crimp dies or a combination of all three.

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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:09 pm 
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llc wrote:
Question for Steve, Yes, the travel of the rod is governed by the e clips..... but isn't the position of the fork on that rod adjustable either up or down? Larry


It is, but if you use it to adjust the height of the hull when its in the collet AND get it up high enough to make a difference you will mushroom the hull and lift it too far at the top.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:03 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:22 pm
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dogchaser37 wrote:
If you reload ammo, it should fit any gun. I highly doubt that a CG (or any well made modern shotgun)would have chambers tighter than maximum cartridge size.

I would bet that something on your reloader is not adjusted properly. Probably the collet or the final two crimp dies or a combination of all three.


Logic has me agreeing with you, but I’m too paranoid to mess with something that ain’t broke.
H


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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:14 am 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
If you reload ammo, it should fit any gun. I highly doubt that a CG (or any well made modern shotgun)would have chambers tighter than maximum cartridge size..


Tighter then maximum, no, but maybe .005 smaller then yours and you are only resizing .004 smaller then yours. Wont fit the other gun.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:30 am 
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Henry, your reloaded is adjusted just fine the way it is. The CG has tight chambers and seeing how it isn't your gun don't give it a second thought. Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:43 am 
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Yevets,

Here is my opinion of reloading and it may not align with yours. Please don't take offense.

If you reload you should be resizing properly, which includes the entire length of the hull and crimp to properly fit minimum chamber dimensions. Minimum chamber is larger than maximum cartridge dimensions. Very few modern, well made firearms will be made to minimum chamber dimensions.

All properly adjusted MEC reloading machines will resize the brass and form the crimp to make ammunition well under maximum cartridge.

You aren't saving wear & tear on the reloader by adjusting it to make ammo that only fits your shotgun.

You should be able to hand anyone, one of your reloads and have it fit their shotgun.

It's not as if you have to do anything special, you just have to do things right.

I know .410's can be a PITA, I used to load for a friend's Model 42. After finding the components with the correct wad column for the hulls (Remingtons back then) everything went well.

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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:53 am 
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I reload for 8 different 9mm handguns. If I didn't use a case gauge on my initial set up of my sizing die I could possibly be adjusting my die each time I add a new gun to my collection. The point is the case gauge is spec. The cg is not out of spec since he is not having problems with factory ammo. This is why I disagree with using the plunk test to setup a dies. A good set of calipers and a case gauge are invaluable in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:40 am 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
You aren't saving wear & tear on the reloader by adjusting it to make ammo that only fits your shotgun.


Sorry, but yes you are. Its been a long proven fact that if you use the MEC "GO/NO GO" gauge you will spring the fingers on your collet, especially the 12 gauge (thinner fingers) a lot sooner then you would if you resize to your gun. I have friends with tighter chambers then I have, and have to resize smaller ( work the collet more) then I do. Thats why I have replaced their collets more then I have replaced mine.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:28 pm 
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The only time I have ever had issues with reloads working in one gun and not in another was when I had reloaders like the 650 that did not resize. Your friend with the CG could buy a MEC Sizer and just resize his hulls, but not reload them.

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:58 pm 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
If you reload ammo, it should fit any gun. I highly doubt that a CG (or any well made modern shotgun)would have chambers tighter than maximum cartridge size.

I would bet that something on your reloader is not adjusted properly. Probably the collet or the final two crimp dies or a combination of all three.

I agree with that (the blue statements). What wasn't mentioned in the OP's post was, whether or not FACTORY (AA's ?) are/were getting occasionally stuck in the CG. If not, then the reloader isn't reloading to factory shell dimensions, - it's just that simple.

As far as the 'two final crimp dies', no, that's not true at all. I shoot a lot of .410 AA's, and I occasionally have mangled, mushroomed crimps to where I almost need to rubber mallet them in to close the gun, that fall out under their own weight after firing. Nothing about an hollow, post-fired empty plastic hull tube will stick in the chamber - it's only the metal headstamp that can do that.


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 Post subject: Re: .410 AA reloads won’t fit or won’t extract after shootin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:12 pm 
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The subject is reloaded shells,
Brownings.(3)....they fit. All the time.
Friend CG they don’t. Never

The question was...why?

( I seriously doubt the factory would release a $10,000 shotgun that would not take a spread of factory ammo).

Just keeping it ...simple..right.

H




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