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 Post subject: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:40 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:11 pm
Posts: 70
New to shotshell reloading. I'm wondering why I'm getting inconsistent crimps. These are all once fired Remington Nitro hulls. I've tried raising the pre-crimp and then raising the crimp station, but not much difference.

The photo shows the variations I'm seeing:
Top row: Looks pretty good to me I get these about 50% of the time
Second row: Various swirls. I get these around 45% of the time
Third row: These just looked mashed. I see these about 5% of the time.

Thanks for the help!

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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:50 pm
Posts: 363
Location: The wilds of rural central California
The top row is of course fine.
The second row is likely due to differing length of the hulls.
The third row is due to your not taking an extra second to ensure that the hull is properly aligned with the pre-crimp die.

tp (who at least sounds like he knows whatinell he's talking about)

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12/30" Browning Citori CX White
12/26" Franchi Affinity 3
12/26" ATI Cavalry (hey, it shoots...usually)


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:48 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:11 pm
Posts: 70
Thanks for the help. How do you ensure that the hull is properly aligned with the pre-crimp die?


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:51 pm 
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Posts: 363
Location: The wilds of rural central California
Ernest T wrote:
Thanks for the help. How do you ensure that the hull is properly aligned with the pre-crimp die?

By feel. When it's aligned properly the hull will go higher in the die.
Keep at it. You'll get it!

I load both Nitros and Premiums (STS). The STS seem to be considerably more consistent with regards to hull length.

tp (who just recently figgered it out himself)

_________________
RM, NRA/USCCA RSO, NSSF, and a bunch of other acronyms.
12/30" Browning Citori CX White
12/26" Franchi Affinity 3
12/26" ATI Cavalry (hey, it shoots...usually)


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:53 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 7:05 pm
Posts: 151
Sort your cases by length into two batches, short and long(er).
Adjust crimp stations to suit each batch.


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:50 pm
Posts: 363
Location: The wilds of rural central California
Anyone notice any difference in the firing of rounds that look like the top row vs the second row?

tp (who is happy when it goes bang)

_________________
RM, NRA/USCCA RSO, NSSF, and a bunch of other acronyms.
12/30" Browning Citori CX White
12/26" Franchi Affinity 3
12/26" ATI Cavalry (hey, it shoots...usually)


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:16 pm 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 1592
Location: Acton, CA
I load Gun Clubs, most of mine look like the top row, a few look like the bottom row and a few have a very small swirl, not nearly as much as shown here.

I notice no difference performance wise in any of them. The ones that look like the bottom row get marked, I toss them as I use them and I won't load them again.

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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:43 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 4983
Location: Miami Florida and The Republic of Panama
I have noticed within the past couple of years a lot of variation in the lengths of
Remington hulls.
It's been really noticeable in Gun Clubs and Nitros and I am having similar results as your
1st 2 rows. I was forced to find a happy medium with them and live with it but without the happy.
I have a large tub of older Remington black Sport hulls I haven't touched in years so I tried
reloading them just to test what I suspected.
Those old black Rem hulls were easily dialed in and came out consistent and perfect.
I got so frustrated by the hull length variations I threw out my GC's and quit reloading my Nitro's.
I am now reloading a lot of AAHS hulls and I am picking those up at the range to gather a stockpile
along with my reloading stash of STS and Black Remington Sport hulls.
I am no longer picking up G.C.'s

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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 1592
Location: Acton, CA
Grabbed a random box of shells, this is about average for me.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/displayimage.php?pid=24824&fullsize=1

Images used to work for me, but no more...

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Last edited by ceh383 on Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:22 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:41 am
Posts: 5580
What reloading machine?


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:09 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:11 pm
Posts: 70
Dano523 wrote:
What reloading machine?


MEC 9000G


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:24 am 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:51 pm
Posts: 1648
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Ernest T wrote:
Thanks for the help. How do you ensure that the hull is properly aligned with the pre-crimp die?



You should not have to, it should self align to the original folds. Thats why it spins freely on the ball post it snaps too.

Now for a couple of "tricks" for your issue. Slow down and make sure you pull the handle down all the way. (if your 9000 has one) Try and adjust the machine for no swirl or at least as little as possible. Now this might cause "holes" in the short hulls. Which you try and close using the last die on the 9000. This is the taper die and puts a nice radius on the top of your hull (helps with feeding on pumps/autos) but will also close up the holes. Use as much as you can without crushing the hull just above the brass.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:56 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:50 pm
Posts: 363
Location: The wilds of rural central California
ceh383 wrote:
I load Gun Clubs, most of mine look like the top row, a few look like the bottom row and a few have a very small swirl, not nearly as much as shown here.

I notice no difference performance wise in any of them. The ones that look like the bottom row get marked, I toss them as I use them and I won't load them again.

The bold. Once the crimp gets fubar'd they're usually toast.

tp

_________________
RM, NRA/USCCA RSO, NSSF, and a bunch of other acronyms.
12/30" Browning Citori CX White
12/26" Franchi Affinity 3
12/26" ATI Cavalry (hey, it shoots...usually)


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:13 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:25 am
Posts: 4692
Location: Annapolis, MD
To summarize, the holes in the hulls in the first row and the swirls in the 2nd are caused by hull length variation. The typical solution is to cull some of the short ones, adjust the crimp start so the holes close and live with the swirls on the long ones.

The FUBARs in the 3rd are caused by the crimp start die not aligning. Perhaps a squirt of lubricant in the part of the die that allows it to "float" might help? An alternative might be to replace the 8-pt crimp start die with the cone-shaped one meant for use with paper hulls. Those crimp starters have nothing to align. While I don't use a MEC, I use the cone starter for all my loads and I can't recall ever having crimps that look like those in the 3rd row.

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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Posts: 1882
Location: Eastern Oregon
Also watch the hull mouth for "circular" opening. Some hulls suffer a bit of abuse before making it to the loading bench.. the spindex will not always work properly if the mouth of the hull is less than circular... While a CRS decapping die expands the hull properly the standard MEC die does not always do so. I installed the CRS die and also reverted to the old MEC pre-crimp tool...... other than sometimes a small hole in the center the other abnormalities you show us do not happen for me now. And as others have stated I noticed no difference in performance when I still had the issues..... Larry


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:41 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:03 am
Posts: 20
Index you shell to the pre crimper- it’s real difficult to do, the best way I have found is to put a white line on your pre crimper and line it up with the shells already crimp line. Takes about 2 sec as your bringing the handle down. As far as the different crimps. Get you a hull trimmer and trim all of them to the same size. When the shell is fired it will stretch the plastic just a little on some shells. Hull trimmer squares everything up, no need to sort anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:29 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:11 pm
Posts: 70
Thanks for all the help.

Definitely appears to be a hull length problem causing the swirls. I sorted 50 hulls by length, and had perfect crimps on all the short ones. I tweaked the crimp depth, and the final taper settings and that improved things for the long hulls, but the long hulls still end up with swirls, but not as bad as before.

I guess my options are to live with the swirls on the long hulls, cull the long hulls, or buy a hull trimmer.

Any suggestions for a good hull trimmer?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:33 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
Posts: 2297
Location: Central NH
Ernest T wrote:
Thanks for all the help.

Definitely appears to be a hull length problem causing the swirls. I sorted 50 hulls by length, and had perfect crimps on all the short ones. I tweaked the crimp depth, and the final taper settings and that improved things for the long hulls, but the long hulls still end up with swirls, but not as bad as before.

I guess my options are to live with the swirls on the long hulls, cull the long hulls, or buy a hull trimmer.

Any suggestions for a good hull trimmer?

Thanks!

https://creativereloadingsolutions.com/ ... -12-gauge/


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:02 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Posts: 1882
Location: Eastern Oregon
I have found the use of the old, metal pre-crimp die of days past adds a certain degree of stability/indexing to my 9000. I did have to come up with a way to change height but I took care of that. I still keep the spindex handy but hope I never have to put it back on. It does seem that perhaps the metal design does aid a bit in hulls that are not perfectly rounded. Only issue will be if something breaks/wears to the point there are issues as I am unable to find a backup assembly. I have looked at the BPI offering but many of the comments indicate one must index the hull to the tool. Not sure that is something I want to mess with. Perhaps I could lathe the OD of the BPI to fit insice the old MEC metal body?? Larry


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 Post subject: Re: Inconsistent Crimps
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:44 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2260
Location: Attica, Mi
I don't want to sound rude, but I have never in 50 years of reloading with Mec presses have had to index a shell with the start crimp die. Never. With any press be it a 600, 650, Grabber, or 9000. If the die doesn't line up it's because it isn't spinning freely. You didn't change dies and get a 6 point die in there instead of the 8 point one ? As suggested, a smooth, cone die works for both the 6 and 8 point crimps. Also as it was intended to be used for the paper shells. About 3 years ago I ground the ribs out of the plastic dies I have so I didn't have to worry about 6 or 8 point crimps. They work just fine. You could also do it for 20 ga shells. Mec sells them for 12ga only. Maybe use a little less start crimp and see if you can adjust the last station down a bit without bulging the shell just above the brass. I reload about 95% Remington, love the Nitros, and have never had a problem on my 9000H. Matter of fact, it will give nice looking reloads with any Remington or Win hull without changing anything or trimming shells. My hull trimmers for 2 1/2" or shorter 12ga, or the 2 7/8" 10ga are dowels and a single edge razor at a 15 degree angle stuck in the dowel. There's a little playing around to find the correct length. Go here to see some trimmers.
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread ... ll+trimmer



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