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 Post subject: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:25 pm 
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A while back I bought a supply of reloading things from a lady that was getting rid of some her fathers things. Included was a bag of Winchester wads. The bag said "Red Wads" use in 1 1/8 oz to 1 7/8 oz loads.
I don't see any info on the Hodgdon or Alliant loading sites.
What am I missing. Does anyone have and load data (1 1/8 oz) for these wads.
Forgive me if I asked about this before but it's been awhile.




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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:34 pm 
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The Winchester red wad has been discontinued for several years. One thing people still use them for is loading black powder (BP) as the red wad has a short stack height and BP takes up a lot of space. Claybusters still makes a clone of the red wad. It is CB1138-12. Maybe you can find some data on that wad. Otherwise one bag of an ancient wad really is not worth worrying about. Toss it or give it to a cowboy shooter that shoots BP.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:51 pm 
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
I have seen data for it with the heavier shot charges. I don't recall any 1 1/8 oz. data although I can probably find some. It is a hunting wad, I don't think the boys that holler "pull" before they shoot like them. Actually, I don't like them a lot either but I have some.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:54 pm 
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They make an excellent 1 1/4 ounce pigeon load.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:26 pm 
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Because the crush section is so short on those wads, they are unsuitable for use in today's target hulls with 1 1/8 oz of shot. The stack height would be way too short.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:11 am
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We loaded 1 1/4 ounce Duck loads in AA CF hulls in the 80s using those wads.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:55 pm 
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saskbooknut wrote:
We loaded 1 1/4 ounce Duck loads in AA CF hulls in the 80s using those wads.
You were probably using a heavy charge of something like Herco or HS-6.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:13 pm 
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I believe that Claybuster still makes them, as I recently bought some. They are ideal for heavy shot loads with bulky powder. I have a large box of Winchester 12 ga polyformed paper hulls with the low brass and the tall basewad. Those wads are absolutely perfect for that hull with 1 and 1 1/8 oz target loads. That’s what I use them for, and yes I do enjoy shooting old paper hulls

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:18 pm
Posts: 20
Location: AZ
I love them in the AA CF's with Blue Dot and 1 1/4 oz of shot.

I believe Aliant still has data online for them with Blue Dot.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
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casonet wrote:
polyformed paper hulls
?

The red AA wad was originally loaded in factory Winchester-Western paper Super-Target ammo.

A "hinged wad" is currently loaded in factory Winchester-Western Super-Target ammo.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:24 am 
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Apparently there were two types of polyformed paper hulls. Both have paper basewads. One is what I described (marked “Ranger”) the other has a much shorter paper basewad and a high brass head. I don’t have any of those. Both are described in Winchester reloading pamphlets as late as 1989.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
If I want a duck load, I don't let stack height bother me. Just cut the leg section out & replace it with fiber wads of suitable height. Not a really big hassle to load a box or two of hunting ammo!


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:11 am
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I was mistaken.
I just looked at my Father-in-Law's old Winchester handbook with his notes in it - he loaded 1 3/8 or 1 1/2 ounce shot with the WAA12R wad, using 571 powder.
I never knowingly fired those shoulder killers.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:43 am 
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Well, I’ve got a canister of 571 if you want to try it!!

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 154
casonet wrote:
polyformed paper hulls


I don't know what a polyformed paper hull is. How is it different from a typical paper hull?

The paper hulls used with the original paper Super Target loads had a high basewad. At least some used the red AA wad. Others may have used other wads.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
"I never knowingly fired those shoulder killers"

Those loads don't have to be/ are not always shoulder killers. A lot of things go into the recoil formula. I won't elaborate as I don't want to start another marathon recoil debate but let me just say some loads just seem to shoot nicer than others. I hardly think that in this day of hyper velocity 3.5" steel, 1.5 oz. loads would raise a lot of eyebrows.
If you will permit me to stray briefly from the topic, that reminds me of a client asking his white hunter if a .405 Winchester would kill a rhinoceros. If you recall a .405 Win. was chambered in a light lever gun & was Teddy Roosevelt favorite lion rifle. The white hunter replied, "only if you let the rhinoceros shoot it."


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 154
The red AA wad worked splendidly in pre-RXP Remington target hulls such as the All American hull.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:32 am 
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
"I don't know what a paper polyformed hull is"
I think that was sort of a typo. If I am correct, all polyformed hulls have a "poly" wall or body. The basewad can be fiber/paper or plastic. Essentially, the first Winchester polyformed hulls were the same as the older paper wall hulls except for the new plastic wall. That would be an easy mistake to make for that reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:16 am 
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It is a term used by Winchester (Olin) to describe hulls that they manufactured that were either two or three piece either paper or plastic. What the term exactly means, I do not know. If you refer to Lyman reloading manuals you will see these hulls both graphically and descriptively. Typically the polyformed hull was either plastic with a plastic basewad or paper with a paper basewad with a paper seal above the basewad. The basewad was either tall or short depending on the height of the brass shell head. In their reloading guide for ball powders, Winchester carefully explains this and cautions that reloading data are different for the two. I believe that the polyformed hull was still made recently for the former dove and quail 12 ga load.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:04 pm
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Location: Eastern Ohio
The original Winchester aa red wads were good. The last clay buster wads were less than desirable. They had a habit of coming out the bore in pieces. I haven’t bought any in several years.



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