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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:45 am
Posts: 377
I used the red wads many years ago to load the old Winchester paper hulls with the high base wad with 1 1/8oz loads as well as in the Winchester AAcf hulls with 1 3/8oz of lead when it was legal to hunt ducks with lead shot.




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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:32 pm 
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:35 am
Posts: 878
Location: Alabama
Look for data under both the AA12R and current Claybuster CB1138 12 moniker. Both are listed in current Alliant data.


Last edited by RMc on Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5133
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
"It is a term used by Winchester to describe hulls they manufactured that were either two or three piece, either paper or plastic."
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so! POLY literally means many, as in many fibers such as polyester. In chemistry it generally refers to a polymer, ie; a type of plastic. The first part is correct but I believe all polyformed hulls have a plastic body but the first ones had a paper basewad. I have reloaded every type of hull Winchester has made since 1961. The first hull they called polyformed, as I recall, was essentially identical to their paper hulls except the body was plastic (a polymer) and the base wad was paper. A plastic hull with a seperate basewad is generally called a riefenhauser hull. Actually, reifenhauser is a plastic molding process so maybe a polyformed hull is a reifenhauser hull but I don't think we need to go there. Just saying I don't think the all paper Winchester hull was their polyformed hull!


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:58 am 
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I have it in print both in Winchester literature and in Lyman. Send me your email in a PM and I’ll send you PDF copies

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
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Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
"It is a term used by Winchester-----"
I don't want to be a prick about it as it really isn't important but here is a quote from Winchester's 9th. edition reloading data hand out. They repeatedly state "Winchester low brass polyformed OR paper cases" & "Winchester high brass polyformed OR paper cases". They also call some Federal cases "polyformed"! What does that indicate?


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:03 pm 
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Well, Geometric and J Fred, I got your PMs then went to my reference books. What I found is not what I remember. The Winchester Ball Powder Guide has drawings of both hulls which appear to be identical but referenced as “polyformed OR paper”. I cannot find the reference in my Lyman book that I recall. So, in retrospect, you are correct. Plastic construction is Polyformed and paper construction is paper even though they otherwise appear to be identical. It’s been a while since I looked at these references and I guess my memory isn’t as good as it used to be. Anyway, I have a large garbage bag of those paper hulls, once fired, with the high basewad that I really enjoy loading with those red wads and 452 ball powder. I have an equal amount of the paper 20 ga paper hulls that also load nicely. So gents, my apology for misleading the thread.

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5133
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
No apology necessary. We all err once in a while. Be kind to me when I screw up! {hs#


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:47 pm 
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Location: PA Dutch Country
wrfish wrote:
A while back I bought a supply of reloading things from a lady that was getting rid of some her fathers things. Included was a bag of Winchester wads. The bag said "Red Wads" use in 1 1/8 oz to 1 7/8 oz loads.
I don't see any info on the Hodgdon or Alliant loading sites.
What am I missing. Does anyone have and load data (1 1/8 oz) for these wads.
Forgive me if I asked about this before but it's been awhile.


I don't think you will find load data for 1-1/8 oz unless you cut back the hull a bit. I love those wads, wish I had found found the deal. I could shoot them with 1-1/8 with Rem AA hulls but I use them for 1-1/4 oz and unique. About 10 years back it seemed like (on SGW) they were being sought after for 3 gun loads.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:30 pm 
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As I mentioned earlier if you can lay your hands on Winchester Polyformed low brass and high basewad or the paper equivalent those wads make a dandy 1 oz or 1 1/8 oz load with Red Dot or 700X and other fast powders. Folks here can give you load data if you can’t find it.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:02 pm 
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The AA12R wad or Claybuster CB1138 12 equivalent are handy wads for loading 10 pellet 00B in Remington unibody hulls. Although two pellets ride above the shot cup.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:17 am
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RMc wrote:
The AA12R wad or Claybuster CB1138 12 equivalent are handy wads for loading 10 pellet 00B in Remington unibody hulls. Although two pellets ride above the shot cup.


Lately, I have been loading the CB variant in Cheddite hulls with Longshot and 535 grs (call it a short 1.25 oz) of Lead or Bismuth. It takes a 1/2" fiber wad in the shot cup to make the column height reasonable, but they sure pattern nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 6069
Location: Newton Kansas
My 1-3/8oz Pheasant Grenades use AA12R wads, in Fed. High Power (paper basewad) hulls.

The petals are too short yes, thus an acetate or teflon shotwrap gets used also.

Oh yea, they are also used in my 1-5/8oz Short Snowball Magnums in Rainel ACTIV hulls (shotwrap again, and buffer).

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester " Red Wads"
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:27 am
Posts: 152
They work great for loading 12 ga, cast 525 gr. Lyman slugs.




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