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 Post subject: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:33 am 
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I finally got around to pattern the above . Both loads were shot with skeet chokes at a station 6 distance of a skeet field.The 12 ga was a Fabarm o/u and the 28 was a Browning o/u White Lightning. Although close, the 28 ga delivered a more dense pattern with more pellets in the same space. The 28 ga was a factory load vs a reload on the 12ga.
The results surprised a friend and myself. I was betting on the opposite.Has anyone else tried this comparison?




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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:53 am 
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wrfish wrote:
the 28 ga delivered a more dense pattern with more pellets in the same space. The 28 ga was a factory load vs a reload on the 12ga.


My first guess is that the pellets in the 28ga factory shells had better (higher antimony) pellets than your 12ga reloads. Were the factory shells target loads or game loads?

How many patterns of each did you shoot to make the comparison and what were the average pattern numbers? What were the true choke constrictions.

That's why I often say the only way to really know how you barrel/choke/load combo performs is to pattern it at the distance you intend to use it!

Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:26 am 
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There may well have been less pellets in the reload too. Many MEC machines throw light drops of shot. Mine are about 1/16 to 1/32 light.

And like Joe said, other than pure count, hatdness and restriction factor in too.

The good news though, is, that's a sweet load in either guage. And depending on what one's use is, both are very enjoyable. At the skeet distance of 21 yards, one will never be justified blaming a miss on either load!

3/4 oz. is a creampuff in an 8 lb. target gun. And a great performer as well in a svelte, carrying around, hunting gun.


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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
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To be sure you'd have to know the pellet counts of each. And the pellet size and quality of each. And you would have to know the pellet counts in each pattern....maybe even pellet count in their cores. And one pair of patterns would not be enough.

And with all of that, any difference my not be a function of the ammo, but a function of the individual chokes that were used.


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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:22 pm 
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I would think that the 12 gauge pattern would be more open because it started from a larger opening. You could always tighten the pattern up I would think and make it more dense? Maybe not.


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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:10 pm 
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When I shoot my reloads, I choke up one .005 tighter. try your 12 ga 3/4oz with an IC choke versus the 28 gauge skeet and see what happens. I found that idea to work well.

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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:42 am 
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I am not too concerned about the issue. Some of us skeet shooters wondered if the 12ga 3/4 oz had an advantage over a 28ga load. I concluded it does not. Its enough for me.


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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:07 am 
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Let me start by stating that I load a ton of reduced payload shells.

My primary skeet load is 7/8 oz in a 12 gauge hull, a shell that I would much rather shoot than shooting a factory 20 gauge.

When it came to 3/4 oz loads I ran plenty of them in 12 gauge hulls also but never really studied them to any high degree. At the same time I was also loading 3/4 oz in 20 gauge hulls.

Over time it just became crystal clear that I shot better with my 3/4 oz 20's versus the 12 gauge variant. I also came to the conclusion that given the choice I absolutely prefer my 3/4 oz 20's over shooting 28 gauge.

My own unscientific conclusion, I'll keep the 3/4 oz reloading in a 20GA hull.


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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:23 am 
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I also reload 3/4 in 20 (besides the 12 mentioned above); it works great.

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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
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wrfish wrote:
Some of us skeet shooters wondered if the 12ga 3/4 oz had an advantage over a 28ga load.


A big advantage is that if you don't shoot registered skeet, you need not buy a 28 gauge gun and reloader.


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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:03 pm
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All answered in Sporting Shotgun Performance, AC Jones. All things being equal, 12G wins over sub gauges.


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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:47 am 
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Quote:
All answered in Sporting Shotgun Performance, AC Jones. All things being equal, 12G wins over sub gauges.


Depends on what you mean by "wins". If winning means tighter pattern at long range, yes the 12ga. wins. Skeet is a 20yd game and tight patterns are not a good thing. If you peruse the pattern section in the back of Dr. Jones's book take a look at 3/4 oz. #9 shot loads with 28ga. Pretty good distribution out in the 20" to 30" ring of the pattern. Personally I don't think the 12ga. 3/4 oz. load would be any advantage over the same in 20 or 28ga. at skeet ranges. If anything at all, the 12ga. by patterning tighter it may be a slight disadvantage, but I think we'd be splitting hairs on that.
Now if you want to shoot 40yd crossers in sporting with 3/4 oz loads I'll take the 12ga. over the sub gauges all the time.


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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:43 pm 
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"All answered in Sporting Shotgun Performance, AC Jones. All things being equal, 12G wins over sub gauges."

Well it sounds like the 12 gauge did not "win" in WR's test.

What brand of shot used in the reloads? Of course you could maybe increase the choke on the 12 gauge a little and get the same results as with the 28 gauge. Hard or impossible to make "all things equal" when comparing a 12 gauge gun with a 20 gauge gun. Maybe make the size and amount of shot equal and work from there


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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:01 pm 
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J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
wrfish wrote:
Some of us skeet shooters wondered if the 12ga 3/4 oz had an advantage over a 28ga load.


A big advantage is that if you don't shoot registered skeet, you need not buy a 28 gauge gun and reloader.

{hs# :wink: Yep.

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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:51 am 
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What shot brand was loaded in the 3/4 oz 12s? Did you check the payload, see if it was really 3/4 oz? Do you know, or can you measure, the net constrictions of the 28 and 12 ga "skeet" chokes?

Ask because you did not likely do an apples to apples comparison. But even if it was/were, would not expect a dramatic difference in results.


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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:36 am 
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A pattern board only captures the cross sectional distribution of the cloud of shot, or shot string. I imagine that the 12 gauge shot string is quite a bit shorter than the 28's. Doesn't this have some implications for shooting moving targets, particularly for crossing shots?


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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:03 am 
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Don't always expect better patterns out of a 12 vs. a 28 ga. using the same amount of shot. A lot depends on the chokes, guns, and individual loads being compared.

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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:17 pm 
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Grouse Gunner wrote:
There may well have been less pellets in the reload too. Many MEC machines throw light drops of shot. Mine are about 1/16 to 1/32 light.

And like Joe said, other than pure count, hatdness and restriction factor in too.

The good news though, is, that's a sweet load in either guage. And depending on what one's use is, both are very enjoyable. At the skeet distance of 21 yards, one will never be justified blaming a miss on either load!

3/4 oz. is a creampuff in an 8 lb. target gun. And a great performer as well in a svelte, carrying around, hunting gun.



That is what I have found in the MEC bars, I spent yesterday with my dremel making my MEC bars drop what they are supposed to. My 7/8 ounce bars were dropping 3/4 ounce, My 3/4 bar was dropping just over 1/2 ounce, my 1 ounce bar was throwing 7/8 ounce, and my 1 1/8 bar was dropping 1 ounce.


cdb

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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:59 pm 
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Velocity??? I would bet that 12 gauge starts out 200+ fps faster than the 28 loading.


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 Post subject: Re: 12ga 3/4 oz vs 28ga #9 shot
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:11 pm 
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I loaded up a bunch of 7/8 and ¾ oz loads when shot was tough to get. End of day, I found ¾ a bit more challenging to shoot that 7/8's, but my impression at the time it was more the near total lack of recoil altering my second-shot trigger timing than it was the reduced pellet count. When it was all done, I realized there was little point for me to practice with something less than I planned to shoot in competition, so moved back to 100% 1oz. YMMV



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