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 Post subject: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:58 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:42 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Ontario Canada
I am looking for some data for light 10 gauge loads.
I intend to use Federal hulls, Rem SP10 wads, trim hulls and cup to the necessary height to crimp over 1 1/8 oz of shot.
I have found several places listing around 19 grs of Red Dot or Promo
I have a supply of PB I would like to use if I can find data on it.
Low pressure for old damascus is my priority, so if there is a better powder choice, I'm open to that.
Thnx to all.




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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:35 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:21 pm
Posts: 665
My standard short 10 load for a Damascus Hammer Gun is cut down federal hull, SP10 wad full length . 16 G fiber filler inside the shot cup split to suit stack height. 19 Grs Red Dot 1 1/8 oz Shot. Others use the same recipe it’s from the Parker Club site.

Have gone as light as 1 oz shot for short targets


Bass


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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
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Location: Kansas
I’ve used as little as 17.5 grains of RD with success

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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:51 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:09 pm
Posts: 927
Location: Las Vegas NV
Go here look for JB books
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11403

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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:32 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2259
Location: Attica, Mi
I don't even like the 1 1/8oz load. My preferred 10ga target load is 1oz of shot with either a SP-10 or a BPI 10ga wad and 16ga filler wad. I've cut mine to 2 5/8 - saves on the filler wad needed. It was also at one time to fit in a Parker with stepped 2 5/8" chambers. So now my Remington, Parker, and Lefever 10ga guns all shoot 2 5/8" shells. Before that I had 2 7/8 and the 2 5/8 shells and it was a pain to keep them separated.
As far as the out dated PB, I've always loaded any mild 12 ga load in the 10 because the chambers are bigger so you'll have less pressure. A 22 to 23gr PB 1 1/8 oz load in a 12ga Fed shell [ straight walled just like all 10ga hulls ] at 1200fps with any primer /wad combo has a high pressure of 7600psi. Put that in a 10 and your pressures should drop to around 7 or 7200psi. You can do that with any number of target powders. I've been using these light 10ga loads with RD [ 19grs] or GD [ 21grs] for about eight years now with no problems.

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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:50 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:35 am
Posts: 878
Location: Alabama
Current light 1.25 ounce 10 gauge load data: Both black powder and smokeless.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial ... ing/361504

Also for light 12 and 16 gauge loads.


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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:49 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:42 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Ontario Canada
In my search for hulls I happened on a company called RCC Brass, I've had some correspondence with them...apparently they will make the inside dimensions to your specs. You have to order a minimum of 50 pieces and they are over $9 each, but I'm thinking they could be profiled to suit smokeless powder and SP10 wads...glue overshot cards in. I'm wondering if used repeatedly in same gun if they would need any sort of resizing, if not they should practically last forever. The other question is whether a glued in card will offer enough resistance to build appropriate pressure.
They have a standard profile 10ga shell, but they seem rather evasive about letting me see what it looks like or giving me the dimensions.


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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:13 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5133
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
I have some hulls very similar to what you describe. I can't remember the name of the company I bought them from, then they sold to a different company. They were machined from solid brass. I have used SP 10 wads in them. You can also buy them from some of the BP outfits, Buffalo Arms perhaps. Last price I saw was $7, about a year ago.


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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:24 pm 
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Location: Kansas
I would caution against using smokeless powder shells, mainly for the reason that they will expand and you will have a very difficult if not impossible time of trying to resize them

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:01 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5133
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
I have unconfirmed information from the company that made some of them that you can use listed data safely. I think you can use SOME listed data safely but I haven't seen it proven to my satisfaction that you can use ANY smokeless data in them. I do use some low pressure data but I get nervous about data that hasn't been tested in that hull. I have also used Trail Boss in them, (which is not recommend by Hodgdons), with out issue. I think the deal with Trail Boss is you can't compress it. If you break the coating on the granules, it can cause high pressure! Again, this is speculation & has not been confirmed & please don't take this as fact or a recommendation. I do know Trail Boss has been tested in other hulls & produced low pressure & good velocity. I don't know how much compression TB will take, if any. I would also use only card & fiber wads in the all brass hulls unless or until we have some credible test results! That is my personal take on it and not my advice. You take responsibility for what you do!! I think any of the BP subs will work. I have used Duco cement on the os wads with no failures. Yes, they can be full length resized. That isn't required very often but I believe RCBS makes a fl resizing die for brass shotgun hulls. I use one that came off of an old PW loader. What ever you do or don't do, be careful & be safe!


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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:03 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:09 pm
Posts: 927
Location: Las Vegas NV
here is the people I have 16ga and 10ga shells from them

http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/products.htm

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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:54 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5133
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
My hulls are stamped "BR&G". They sold the business, perhaps to "Rockymountaincartridge".


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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:09 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2259
Location: Attica, Mi
I tried shooting nitro loads in all brass shells without success. As said, the problem is with the OS card not giving enough resistance to build up pressure. The military has all brass shells but they're slightly crimped. Charlie, on the Parker web site, claims he does ok by keeping pressure on the OS card as the glue dries. I never had the same results. In the Accurate powder reloading handbook from 2005 they talk about the importance of the crimp. Here's one line: " The fact is that the effect of crimp-strength can totally overshadow the influence of the other components and parameters." Crimp depth was one of the influences on pressure. The fact that the brass shells we try to use don't have a crimp makes it hard to find a nitro load. RCBS may make a crimp die. The brass shells work fine with BP but I got tired of cleaning them. Unless you're in love with the idea of shooting brass shells you'd be better off shooting 10ga plastic shells with or without the BP. Good luck whatever you decide.

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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
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Location: Kansas
I had good success in brass cases with 17.5 grains of Red Dot, fiber wads 1 1/8 oz of shot and an over shot card glued in with clear Gorilla glue. This is an untested recipe, so proceed at your own risk. The load seemed quite mild.

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:07 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:42 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Ontario Canada
How are the heads profiled on these brass shells? The only ones I've really looked at were Magtech and they were just a balloon head sort of construction. I saw a Youtube video of a guy putting a nylon looking donut that pressed in over the primer pocket to form a base wad. I think I'd be worried about them falling out and being left in bore. I would think a base wad sort of contour in the head would be better for smokeless. Regarding crimp; I'm wondering how much difference there is in the force required to push open a reloaded plastic star crimp compared to breaking loose a card glued in with Ducco, Gorilla or w/e glue? Maybe there is something to the idea of applying pressure to the OS card while glue hardens? I'm just exploring the option of full brass, they look kind of cool and add to the whole nostalgia thing of old doubles, and if they can be reloaded with simple hand tools without resizing and have virtually unlimited life that's another bonus (a lot of ifs) The initial cost is a bit steep. Whacking crows is my passion, they are not hard to kill(if you hit them)A nice patterning load of 1-1 1/8oz 1150-1200fps is all I'm really looking for. A couple guys on Crowbusters are shooting old 10ga doubles and really like them.


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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:28 am 
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Location: Kansas
If you examine Federal Gold Medal plastic or even the old Activ 12 ga hulls you will find that there is no basewad per se, and that they have practically no plastic where the base wad would be

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:23 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5133
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
My hulls are not like Magtec. The Magtec hulls I've seen take rifle or large pistol primers. My hulls (2 7/8" 10 ga.) take 209 primers & have a internal taper similar to AACF hulls. It has been established that roll crimped loads, as a general rule, run lower pressure than the same load with with a folded crimp. A obvious parallel can be made with brass hulls. I haven't done a lot of experimenting with smokeless loads in my brass hulls. The ones I have loaded seem to work fine. I think some testing may be in order. The Duco cement works for me but it needs time to dry. Some have used hot melt glue guns. I have test loads with Red Dot that were running 8,000+/- psi in plastic cases with plastic wads w/ a folded crimp & a 1.25 oz. shot charge. The old "Lee Loader" used Red Dot with up to 1 5/8 oz. of shot & plastic wads. Tight fitting card & fiber wads create more resistance & at the same time give you what has been described as a "automatic safety valve". I have never had a problem with insufficient pressure. My main concern is & has always been assuring that I don't get too much pressure!


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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:12 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 11288
Location: Kansas
My cases were ordered from Rocky Mtn. They were machined from solid brass rod to a custom length and with 209 primer pocket

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:08 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5133
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
It has been a number of years & I can't say for sure without researching it but I think your hulls are the same as mine. I'm thinking Rocky Mountain bought or took over the operation from BR&G which made falling block rifles.


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 Post subject: Re: 10 ga. light loads
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:37 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:42 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Ontario Canada
It's just a bit disconcerting to me..the idea of a thin brass head with the primer pocket sticking up into and surrounded by powder rather than being below it and the primer firing directly into the powder mass. Maybe it's just psychological. At any rate, lots of variables that can effect pressure and performance.




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