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 Post subject: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:43 pm
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Hi, l'm new to shotgun reloading. I've been going to the Hodgdon website and looking at their load data. One very strange thing l've noticed is, when l look up pistol load data, there is a "starting load" and a "maximum load". But in the shotgun data it's all maximum loads. Even if there are 3 different entries for the same EXACT components. There will be 3 different powder measurements. Example 15.7 grains,16.3 grains and 17.1 grains. All marked as max loads.
How can this be? I've tried contacting Hodgdon but of course no luck. If this is a misprint, it seems a dangerous one.




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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:18 pm 
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Those are the loads listed for three different velocities - if you look to the end of the chart you might see 1200 for the first, 1250 for the second and 1300 for the third - as an example.

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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:38 pm 
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Pretty confusing for a newbie. The handgun loads also have different velocities but they call one a starting load and the other a maximum.
Are you allowed to reduce the load for the lowest velocity, or must you stay with the exact recipe?


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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:44 pm 
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You want to stay real close (powder drops are typically on a "close enough for government work" basis)
Example: you want 16 grains of powder XYZ for a velocity of 1200fps and your bushings may drop 15.8 or 16.2 - good enough because there will be variances as you load. one way to minimize those variances is to be consistent in how you actuate your machine so the vibrations, etc. are the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:46 pm 
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Great, thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:53 pm 
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ezzpete,

Since you broached the subject of max loads. There are no tell-tale signs of max loads with shotshells.

Flattened primers with shotshell loads mean nothing. There is nothing to measure. There is nothing to 'work up'. Use the data as published.

Backing off on the powder with some loads makes things worse, especially if you plan to use the loads in cold weather.

Do not get all wrapped around the axle looking for 'low pressure' loads, mostly because you are wasting your time. They accomplish nothing. When it comes to shotshells pressure is your friend, as long as you are not over SAAMI MAP you are good to go.

Hodgdon, Lyman, & Alliant do not publish loads that are over SAAMI MAP.

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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:57 pm 
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What dogchaser said, shotshell loading isn't like metallic loading.

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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:43 pm
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I'm finding that out.Love learning new stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 347
Location: New Mexico
If you find a range of three different powder weights in Hodgdon's data for one set of components, that indicates a minimum to maximum load range that they recommend.

Where there is no lighter powder weight shown, then either the "column height" of the stacked components in the hull is what they found to be the minimum to give a good crimping, properly filled load, or the light powder load did not perform consistently or cleanly (perhaps even being squibby at cold temperatures, for example).

Shotshell loads have to meet both pressure limits AND "volume of components" limits. Whereas cartridge loads do not - until you start getting to tightly compressed powder weights.

Minimum pressure might be that at which the load will JUST burn the powder efficiently. Maximum pressure might be at the SAAMI industry standard that modern shotguns will not be damaged by. And within those pressure limits, there may be volumes of components that are "too short" or "too tall" to fit in the hull and crimp properly. So the loading data tries to keep that in mind when the companies publish their recommended loads.

Hodgdon, Lyman, Alliant and others may not always get those considerations right, especially on the ability of the load to produce a "good fit" in the hull. So, a loader should take the loading data with a grain of salt. Realize that not every published load will crimp properly or give the velocity listed. As you learn shotshell loading, resist the temptation to substitute other components (especially primers) until you learn well what works and what does not.

Good luck, garrisonjoe


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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:58 pm 
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OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
What dogchaser said, shotshell loading isn't like metallic loading.

For that matter, nothing about shotguns is like metallic except there's a trigger (used differently btw), it makes a loud noise and stuff comes out the front end. I've pretty much mastered rifles and pistols. Shotgunning is a complete start at Square One deal and I'm having a blast with it. :)

tp

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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:40 pm 
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Yes, l was pretty lost when l first decided to try shot shell reloading. Took a lot of reading and video watching to get to the point of knowing as little as l know now.


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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:06 am 
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Yeah. I'm just a little farther along than you are with shotshells but when you realize you need to forget pretty much everything you learned about metallic reloading and start from scratch, you're already halfway there.

tp

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RM, NRA/USCCA RSO, NSSF, and a bunch of other acronyms.
12/30" Browning Citori CX White
12/26" Franchi Affinity 3
12/26" ATI Cavalry (hey, it shoots...usually)


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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:02 am 
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ezzpete wrote:
Even if there are 3 different entries for the same EXACT components. There will be 3 different powder measurements...All marked as max loads.


I'm not seeing them marked as max loads. Where are you seeing that?


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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:09 am 
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There is no logic to trying to use the term starting load and maximum loads for shotshell loading. There is no "working up" shotgun loads. You just load to the exact formula. As pointed out in posts above the load tables give different loads to achieve the listed velocities. All the loads listed in the data will be safe loiads. For a newbie....just load to the data. For me it really does not seem confusing. Just different from rifle or handgun loading all together.


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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:03 pm 
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J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
ezzpete wrote:
Even if there are 3 different entries for the same EXACT components. There will be 3 different powder measurements...All marked as max loads.


I'm not seeing them marked as max loads. Where are you seeing that?


On the Hodgdon website using the drop down load data info. When l do it all shotgun data says "maximum load" in red letters.


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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:02 pm 
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I agree some can be confusing
Example of 28 gauge
28 gauge AA shells, Universal Powder, Winchester 209 Primer, 1200 FPS
Hodgdon Paper manual says 14.1 Grains
Hodgdon website says 13.0 Grains
Label on powder keg says 13.0 Grains
I drop 13.1 to 13.2


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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:02 pm
Posts: 154
ezzpete wrote:
J.Fred_Muggs wrote:
ezzpete wrote:
Even if there are 3 different entries for the same EXACT components. There will be 3 different powder measurements...All marked as max loads.


I'm not seeing them marked as max loads. Where are you seeing that?


On the Hodgdon website using the drop down load data info. When l do it all shotgun data says "maximum load" in red letters.


Not on the Hodgdon website I am using. Your load please. Link please.


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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 pm
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Location: New Mexico
The main Hodgdon on-line data is found at this site:

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

If you are looking at something else, try this link.

Quote:
I've tried contacting Hodgdon but of course no luck.


I find this very hard to believe, and not the normal happening when someone contacts Hodgdon. Now, if you tried to call on a Saturday, I'm sure you would not get a live answer. Tell us how you tried to contact Hodgdon reloading technicians.

And WHY do you say "of course"? Hodgdon is a pretty good company for maintaining decent customer relationships.

good luck, garrisonjoe


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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:18 pm 
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Wheelspin wrote:
I agree some can be confusing
Example of 28 gauge
28 gauge AA shells, Universal Powder, Winchester 209 Primer, 1200 FPS
Hodgdon Paper manual says 14.1 Grains
Hodgdon website says 13.0 Grains
Label on powder keg says 13.0 Grains
I drop 13.1 to 13.2
Make sure you are looking at the data for the same hull. It appears you quoted the data from the printed manual for the 28 ga. AAHS hull but quoted data from the 28 ga. AACF hull from the online source. They are 2 completely different hulls and do not take the same data.

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 Post subject: Re: Hodgdon loading data????
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:33 am
Posts: 1392
Location: northern Oklahoma
I dunno, to a new reloader, I could see where he is coming from in many respects. He is here to learn, and learn he shall. Metallic and shotshell are nothing alike, we know that, now he does. But, just the random table I picked out from Hodgdon's online reloading tables showed exactly what he is asking about. In a pistol reloading table, they would have listed this as starting grains of 20.3, do not exceed 24.8, and they would have listed a beginning and ending velocity, and we would have just had to interpolate the velocity anywhere between those powder charges. Nothing below has changed except for the powder charge. So, I can see his confusion in why they don't just list this in a min/max type table too. Just sayin'.


Powder Primer Wad Gr Pressure Velocity

1) Int Clays FIO 616 GU 1225 20.3 8,000 1235

2) Int Clays FIO 616 GU 1225 21.8 8,900 1290

3) Int Clays FIO 616 GU 1225 23.3 9,800 1345

4) Int Clays FIO 616 GU 1225 24.8 10,700 1400

I find in many cases, Hodgdon doesn't take into account dished crimps or other issues we might face with some hulls. The above hull was Cheddite hull BTW. A 4-1/2 gr powder difference can cause stack height issues if on the borderline to begin with.

Just my two pesos, and I wish ezzpete all the success in the word in his new hobby.




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